Author Topic: What constitutes as not following your /duty?  (Read 4742 times)

Offline CapriciousRobber

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What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« on: November 14, 2017, 07:46:30 pm »
I just exited a game where I was playing security and was being chased by several terrorist. I have a very slow computer so I have no chance of getting out of the vehicle and defending myself. So, I kept driving. This terrorist kept following me. I eventually lost him, but something popped up in my head. "Why isn't he following /duty?

So, another game came, and I was being followed by another terrorist. This pursuit was very short, but after it ended, I told him to follow his /duty. He told me that terrorists can do whatever they want. He told me to go on the forums and whine about it. So, here I am. Whining about it.

The question is: What is not following your /duty? Can terrorist just completely forget about killing the President and hunt down security/civilians/police? If so, shouldn't security be allowed to do it as well? There have been games where absolutely no terrorist were interested in killing the President, which made the game extremely boring.

I don't get why terrorist can be excused from their /duty, but securities are admonished for doing the same thing? Yes, securities deviating from protecting the President can make the game dull, but so does terrorist hunting down securities.

I get that if someone is fleeing on low health, the terrorist has every right to kill that person. Hell, I do that. But chasing someone across the map just for a kill? Essentially ignoring /duty? That can't be permitted, right? Isn't the civilian class meant for people who have no real objective other than to disrupt the game for others? People who want to chase should be a civilian. I have no problem with civilians chasing. I think it's a problem that terrorist can do whatever they so please and have no repercussions, but it's prohibited for security.

I'm a **relatively** new player, so I have no idea about all the obscure rules and their specifications. This person telling me that I was wrong IS an 8 year veteran. I just don't get why a good server such as PTP would have such an unclear and bad rule. "X can do whatever they want but Y can't." It doesn't make much sense.


Thanks!

Offline AruN.

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 08:47:14 pm »
Can we first solved securities /duty issue first? Dunno if this is more important than that.
AruN

Offline COBRA

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 09:11:46 pm »
Whoever told you that terrorist can do anything is wrong. Terrorist can't do whatever they want. They have a duty already; their target is killing president in the 15 minutes per round. But we have some players like as who camps around police and security spawn, waiting for you and hunting you each time for easy kills. In this case, you can protect yourself and fight with them ofcourse.

But we have duty for securities much more important; to be with President when he is in danger. You can't just go to hunt some terrorist. If you wanna hunt some terrorists, then you can reclass to police class.

This is not a problem. Just you have to understand the logic of it, in my opinion..


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Offline Spectre

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 09:42:15 pm »
Whoever told you that terrorist can do anything is wrong. Terrorist can't do whatever they want. They have a duty already; their target is killing president in the 15 minutes per round.

They kinda can. They aren't obligated to go and hunt the President the last time I checked, so we could consider their and Cops' duty to be "fluid". The only class with a strictly defined duty is the Security class.

Offline YoMama

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 11:17:30 pm »
The question is: What is not following your /duty? Can terrorist just completely forget about killing the President and hunt down security/civilians/police? If so, shouldn't security be allowed to do it as well? There have been games where absolutely no terrorist were interested in killing the President, which made the game extremely boring.

I don't get why terrorist can be excused from their /duty, but securities are admonished for doing the same thing? Yes, securities deviating from protecting the President can make the game dull, but so does terrorist hunting down securities.

I get that if someone is fleeing on low health, the terrorist has every right to kill that person. Hell, I do that. But chasing someone across the map just for a kill? Essentially ignoring /duty? That can't be permitted, right? Isn't the civilian class meant for people who have no real objective other than to disrupt the game for others? People who want to chase should be a civilian. I have no problem with civilians chasing. I think it's a problem that terrorist can do whatever they so please and have no repercussions, but it's prohibited for security.
I agree with you- too many terrorists don't even know that they're duty is, explicitly, to kill the President or do things that contribute to that cause. However, the problem is that it's pretty difficult to determine what is following a terrorist's duty, and what isn't. It's comparatively simple with security, since they are supposed to deal with the people who are direct threats to the President and not go hunting people who pose no threat.

I think it would be nice to define what a terrorist who is not doing their duty (harming the President) looks like:
  • Hunting people who aren't trying to stop them from harming the President while not making an attempt to go after the people who are actually protecting
  • Hunting civilians and other people when it doesn't matter at all to the gamemode (killing a cop who is alone in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the map)
...but this is still going to widely vary by interpretation.

I still think a more effective way to solve duty problems would be to change the scoring system so there isn't any reward for not following your duty (in this example, getting rid of kills/deaths stats and keeping track of president kills and killing classes near the President instead).

Offline Spectre

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 12:00:41 am »
I still think a more effective way to solve duty problems would be to change the scoring system so there isn't any reward for not following your duty (in this example, getting rid of kills/deaths stats and keeping track of president kills and killing classes near the President instead).

That's an interesting thought, but I can already say that not too many people will like your suggestion if you were to make a poll or something.

Offline Storm

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 09:47:08 am »
In real life:

  • Securities need to protect the president, it's their job.
  • Terrorists don't hunt only the president, they also hunt other people as well.

Simple explanation, no need for long essays
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:50:05 am by Storm »

Offline LPCOLTER

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 11:37:15 am »
Terrorists are the bad guys, and bad guys always do wrong things!

Offline Crash

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 01:21:50 pm »
Terrorists are the bad guys, and bad guys always do wrong things!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline CapriciousRobber

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 03:09:22 pm »
In real life:

  • Securities need to protect the president, it's their job.
  • Terrorists don't hunt only the president, they also hunt other people as well.

Simple explanation, no need for long essays

ok but PTP is not real life. if the terrorist do not chase after the president, it makes the game boring. it doesn't really make sense to apply the PTP game to real life. and even in then, in real life, terrorist would prioritize the president over security.

5/10 analogy

Offline Shark_The_Helicopter

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 05:20:22 pm »
In real life:

  • Securities need to protect the president, it's their job.
  • Terrorists don't hunt only the president, they also hunt other people as well.

Simple explanation, no need for long essays


-O Real Life terrorist invasion/coups are different than the PTP.

-O They don't even hunt. They just storm in and wreck shit up and then look for survivors. You really think that fits under the spawn protected areas with nice cars,bikes and choppers?

-O Problem is they prefer the second method because:

   
  • Stats. 'Nuff said.
  • President is their buddy but they want kills and action so Option 1.
.
   

Long essays are necessary so points can be elaborated and explained well. Simple logic 100% leads to variation in interpretation and conflicts.

 
 

%

Offline Altus_Demens

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 01:15:42 pm »
Hi, CapriciousRobber!
I like the way you are trying to understand the gamemode. I'll try to answer your questions.

What is not following your /duty?
According to our current Rules, only the
Security class is obliged to follow their duty. Thus, by not following duty we mean the actions of securities which are not directed to protect the president at the best of their abilities. Of course, you'll say that this definition is very vague. Indeed, it is an actual problem that was repeatedly discussed throughout the whole server history (if you want, try searching for something like "security duty" and you will see). Right now we are looking for a proper solution to rework the security class. If you have something interesting on your mind, feel free to suggest or discuss it.

Can terrorist just completely forget about killing the President and hunt down security/civilians/police?
Yes, they can.
You see, the aforementioned rule is very vague already, and you are asking to spread it to another class. It won't solve any current problems, but it will surely add new ones. The issue we're discussing is a matter of some sort of ingame culture. I think that enforcing any 'cultural' aspects is principally wrong; instead, we should build the environment that would softly stimulate players to pay more attention to the gamemode.

Besides, this server wasn't always under Jonne's ownership. The previous owner and his companions had their own point about solving the problems. Among other things, they tried to enforce duty on the terrorist class too. Well, people mostly didn't follow this rule, and it led to nothing but abuse and more dramas on the forum. So, my reasonings are based not only on theory, but on practice too.

If so, shouldn't security be allowed to do it as well?
Well, removing the rule could do the job. But we also don't do it for a reason. A very small effort is required to kill a defenseless president, especially if he is a newbie, so we should have an option to make securities protect. Without having a better alternative, the current system is better than nothing. Besides, if we removed it, there wouldn't be a difference between securities and cops but the better weapons of the first ones.



I want to add one thing. Don't forget that admins are human beings too, not soulless robots, and the Rules are supposed to enhance the gameplay for everyone, not to humiliate or abuse. If you think that you were mistreated, discuss your situation with Staff members, they wouldn't hesitate to explain you why you were wrong, or to apologise if they were wrong. Mostly the Staff members dispatch a dialog window which reminds a player about the rule; they shouldn't do it if a player is fighting. If a player consistently ignores it, they reclass him.

P.S.
I still think a more effective way to solve duty problems would be to change the scoring system so there isn't any reward for not following your duty (in this example, getting rid of kills/deaths stats and keeping track of president kills and killing classes near the President instead).

That's an interesting thought, but I can already say that not too many people will like your suggestion if you were to make a poll or something.
Unless something better is suggested, I will.
A paltry man and poor of mind
At all things ever mocks;
For never he knows, what he ought to know,
That he is not free from faults.

Offline Rajesh

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 09:06:36 am »
Actually when I was in security class. Some terros are chasing the President.. But here my job is protect the president.. but not killing the terros right. So I came in middle I diverted those terros from President.. they start hunting me. So I decided to go opposite direction of which President goes. So actually I am slowing down the terros.. and terros are also losing their 15mins time.. And it's not belong for individual me. It's for Team...
But the Dam Rule says.. you always stay with president..
But I am not with president... So what would I do Still follow the president untill he die?

Offline Arabiane

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Re: What constitutes as not following your /duty?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 10:11:58 am »
Hi, CapriciousRobber!
I like the way you are trying to understand the gamemode. I'll try to answer your questions.
you'r funny altus when i see your answers looks like you the one who don't undrestand the rules .

Actually when I was in security class. Some terros are chasing the President.. But here my job is protect the president.. but not killing the terros right. So I came in middle I diverted those terros from President.. they start hunting me. So I decided to go opposite direction of which President goes. So actually I am slowing down the terros.. and terros are also losing their 15mins time.. And it's not belong for individual me. It's for Team...
But the Dam Rule says.. you always stay with president..
But I am not with president... So what would I do Still follow the president untill he die?
this should be allowed and it's one of the reasons that players were reported wrongly for not following the duty.