Author Topic: Elo rating system  (Read 7643 times)

Offline Miau

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Elo rating system
« on: April 04, 2017, 09:21:06 pm »
Hello,

I was reading this message in Kaleth's suggestion and I thought of a system that would encourage players to participate in gamemode-related activities.

It is based on the Elo rating system, but it's not exactly the same. It's widely used in chess or in football.

The system is obviously way more complex than the one we are using now, so I'll try to make it clear:

  • Every new player starts with a neutral Elo rating: 1000 points.
  • If 1000 points is neutral, less than 1000 points is a bad rating and more than 1000 points is a positive rating.
  • There are different achievements in the game that can affect your Elo up to a ±1.5% each. Each event has been assigned an amount of points (from 1 to 15) depending on its importance:

    a. Killing an enemy who is not the president: +2
    b. Killing the president: +7
    c. Surviving as the president: +15
    d. Being a security of a surviving president at less than 300 distance units from him at the moment of survival: +10
    e. Killing an enemy if the killer is a security and is more than 300 distance away from the president: -2
    f. Being killed: -2
    g. Failing to kill the president (for terrorists): -7
    h. Disconnecting after playing for n minutes: +n/20 (activity bonus, the anti AFK should prevent from counting time when the player wasn't active)

    • There are different modifier factors that increase or reduce the points mentioned above depending on the difficulty of the achievement. To get the actual points, multiply the points assigned above by these factors.

      Case (a):
      - Skills and experience of the player that was killed. Factor: (killed player's Elo) divided by (killer's Elo).
      - Players who could've taken part in the fight. Factor: (killed player's nearby friendly players+1) divided by (killer player's nearby friendly players+1). Nearby friendly players means: if the killed and the killer are at a distance d and the point c is equidistant from both of them, players whose distance to c is less than 2*d. If d is less than 5, then d = 5.
      - Classes. If the killed player was a civilian, the president or the vice-president and the killer is playing in another class, factor = 0.4. If the killer was a civilian, the president or the vice-president and the killed player is playing in another class, factor = 1.4. Else, factor = 1.
      - Teams sizes (does not apply to civilians). Factor: (player count in the killed player's team) divided by (player count in the killer player's team)
      - Teams skills (does not apply to civilians). Factor: (average Elo in the killed player's team) divided by (average Elo in the killer player's team).

      Case (b):
      - President's ability. (President survivals+1) divided by (President deaths+1) of the president who was killed.
      - The president was camping at one of the usual camping zones (I'll define them later) at the moment of being killed. Factor: 1.4
      - The president was driving a NRG-500 or an Infernus at the moment of being killed. Factor: 1.4
      - Teams sizes. Factor: (amount of police + SWAT + security) divided by (amount of terrorists).
      - Teams skills. Factor: (police + SWAT + security average Elo) divided by (terrorists' average Elo).
      - Players who could've taken part in killing or protecting the president. Factor: (killed player's nearby friendly players+1) divided by (killer player's nearby friendly players+1). Nearby friendly players means: if the killed and the killer are at a distance d and the point c is equidistant from both of them, players whose distance to c is less than 2*d. If d is less than 5, then d = 5.

      Cases (c), (d) and (g)
      Same factors as in case (b), but all of them with a -1 exponent and with "at the moment of survival" instead of "at the moment of being killed".

      Case (e) and (f)
      Same factors as in case (a).

      Case (h)
      No factors.

    [for the moment I can't think of more, I'll edit]




TL;DR
This is a smart scoring system. It calculates how challenging your achievement was. The harder it was, the more score you get. For example, you get more score for killing YoMama as the president than for killing a random newbie (because he has survived many times, he usually camps at difficult places or uses fast vehicles). Another example: you lose more score when you are killed by a newbie than when you are killed by an experienced player with a high score (because being killed by an experienced player is normal, being killed by a newbie who is supposed to be worse than you is not). Last one: you get way more score if you survive as the president while there are 20 terrorists and 3 securities than when it's the other way around.
Oh! I don't want to fight you, Jorah the Andal. What do I have to gain? If I win, I'm the shit who killed an old man. If I lose, I'm the shit who was killed by an old man.

~ Daario Naharis

Offline Uthar_Smith

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 09:46:26 pm »
Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know if it's worth it to script..


Offline Crash

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 10:29:33 pm »
Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know if it's worth it to script..

Offline Sani

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 11:35:06 pm »
Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know if it's worth it to script..

Offline SLiKkeZ[GgT]

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 01:39:24 am »
the point with the newbie killing you and in that case will cost you more points isnt smart.
more players will go undercover in that case...

although i like the idea.. how much time will it cost in scripting and what about scores from now.

Offline Nazi

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 02:48:22 am »
It's an excellent idea.
+1
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:17:24 pm by FrooşT »
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Offline LPCOLTER

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 05:29:43 am »
I think this system is used in roleplay servers...
This is not good for ptp
-1

Offline Magic

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 06:59:37 am »
+1 good idea

Offline YoMama

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 08:44:10 am »
I was reading this message in Kaleth's suggestion and I thought of a system that would encourage players to participate in gamemode-related activities.
I was going to elaborate on my idea, but you beat me to it- thank you for doing the harder work. The original WTF moment or realizing K/D ratios are bullshit in PTP came from WooG.

Here's my modified version, because I didn't like some of your ideas:

a. Killing an enemy who is not the president: +2
b. Killing the president: +7
c. Surviving as the president: 1 point per minute.
d. Being a security less than 300 distance units from the president: 1/3 point per 30 seconds of being near the president
e. Killing an enemy if the killer is a security and is more than 300 distance away from the president: 0 There are plenty of situations where this doesn't mean a security is doing wrong.
f. Being killed: 0 Dying shouldn't matter unless you're president or security near the president.
g. Failing to kill the president (for terrorists): -0.5 points per minute.
h. Disconnecting after playing for n minutes: +n/20 (activity bonus, the anti AFK should prevent from counting time when the player wasn't active) How long you play has little to do with skill.

  • There are different modifier factors that increase or reduce the points mentioned above depending on the difficulty of the achievement. To get the actual points, multiply the points assigned above by these factors.

    Case (a):
    - Skills and experience of the player that was killed. Factor: (killed player's Elo) divided by (killer's Elo).
    - Players who could've taken part in the fight. Factor: (killed player's nearby friendly players+1) divided by (killer player's nearby friendly players+1). Nearby friendly players means: if the killed and the killer are at a distance d and the point c is equidistant from both of them, players whose distance to c is less than 2*d. If d is less than 5, then d = 5.
    - Classes. If the killed player was a civilian, the president or the vice-president and the killer is playing in another class, factor = 0.4. If the killer was a civilian, the president or the vice-president and the killed player is playing in another class, factor = 1.4. Else, factor = 1. Civilians shouldn't be rewarded for being civilians. I could see this devolving into sniper civilians who are civilians to get more points.
    - Teams sizes (does not apply to civilians). Factor: (player count in the killed player's team) divided by (player count in the killer player's team)
    - Teams skills (does not apply to civilians). Factor: (average Elo in the killed player's team) divided by (average Elo in the killer player's team).
    - Using special weapons. Chain Saw, factor: 0.5. Sniper, factor = 0.4. There's no question that VIP weapons, especially the sniper, give an advantage. Yes, you can argue that they paid for that advantage, but you can't pay for skill.

    I think this whole case should be recast as damage, not killing, so vehicle damage is included.

    Case (b):
    - President's ability. (President survivals+1) divided by (President deaths+1) of the president who was killed.
    - The president was camping at one of the usual camping zones (I'll define them later) at the moment of being killed. Factor: 1.4
    - The president was driving a NRG-500 or an Infernus at the moment of being killed. Factor: 1.4
    - Teams sizes. Factor: (amount of police + SWAT + security) divided by (amount of terrorists).
    - Teams skills. Factor: (police + SWAT + security average Elo) divided by (terrorists' average Elo).
    - Players who could've taken part in killing or protecting the president. Factor: (killed player's nearby friendly players+1) divided by (killer player's nearby friendly players+1). Nearby friendly players means: if the killed and the killer are at a distance d and the point c is equidistant from both of them, players whose distance to c is less than 2*d. If d is less than 5, then d = 5.

    I think this whole case should also be recast as damage.

    Case (c) and (g)
    - Teams sizes.
    - Teams skills.

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 09:01:34 am »
I was thinking about point system in ptp some time ago, but the way you make it, it is pointless. I see many numbers, but what is the point of this system? Getting points to have... more points?
You know the nice thing about the Bronx Zoo, Charlie? There's bars between you and the monkeys.

Offline Ege

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 09:13:05 am »
Is this really needed?

Offline Miau

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 10:13:50 am »
Is this really needed?

I don't think KD ratios and other scoring systems show anything in PTP. This is not a plain simple TDM game, but a gamemode with a specific task for every team. I believe you should get a greater reward if you complete the task assigned to your team. The more challenging it was, the better the reward should be. And also a penalization if you fail to complete the task. When I say task, I say killing or protecting the president. Given the generalized objective of getting easy kills while ignoring the president in order to get the highest ratio, yes, I believe this is really needed.

I was thinking about point system in ptp some time ago, but the way you make it, it is pointless. I see many numbers, but what is the point of this system? Getting points to have... more points?

Yes, scores are a way to quantify your achievements and you can use them for comparisons between players. I believe there would be interest in gaining points, like it happens with the current stats system. I don't think that making a shop to use those points to buy features is a good idea, rivalry between players should be the only incentive.


Yeah, that was a quick approximate idea of how it would be. Anyways, if this is implemented the formulas shouldn't be public. Just to prevent players from coming up with fraudulent ways to earn more points.

About your modifications:
- I still believe securities should be penalized for killing someone away from the president. It's ok in some situations, but in most of them it's not. You can say it's a way to pressure them to head to the president
- If you don't lose points when killed, what would prevent Mr. X and his friend from making a deal to kill each other so they both earn points? And also, how would cops and civilians lose points?
- I don't think terrorists should lose more points the longer they take to kill the president. That would cause players who are concerned about their Elo to vanish from terrorist class as soon as there's a president who will presumably take long to kill (someone camping on a NRG or in a very remote area, for example). Also, if it was like that, terrorists would still be penalized if they killed the president but took too long. I don't think it's fair.
- Yeah, I agree. Civilians shouldn't get a bonus. Not because of the reason you said, but because they don't have a specific role in the gamemode and, for that reason, shouldn't be encouraged.
- I would penalize for sniper or chainsaw use, but not that much... you're suggesting 60-70% penalizations, that's a lot. It's not that easy to get a kill with those weapons.
- If points were given for giving damage, then points should be substracted for taking damage. Otherwise, what would Mr. X and his friend from damaging each other and refilling at armor, so they both earn points?



It's not that hard to script, it's some simple math and SAMP parameters that need to be checked. The real difficulty is to figure out the perfect amount of points for each achievement so they accurately quantify the effort it takes.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:18:07 am by Mia »
Oh! I don't want to fight you, Jorah the Andal. What do I have to gain? If I win, I'm the shit who killed an old man. If I lose, I'm the shit who was killed by an old man.

~ Daario Naharis

Offline MAR.

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 02:38:15 pm »
g. Failing to kill the president (for terrorists): -7
-1 i didn't like it

Offline Nazi

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 03:19:50 pm »
g. Failing to kill the president (for terrorists): -7
-1 i didn't like it
¿Do not you feel capable of killing the president? If you want I can show you how it's done.
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Offline Quido

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Re: Elo rating system
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 04:10:32 pm »
It's an interesting idea but I see one major flaw, people farming elo. As with any elo system, your goal is to have the highest elo, to be number 1 and players will do anything to get there. Anyone who picks the terrorist class will have to approximately kill around 10 people, without dying, to balance out the 7 elo points lost for the president's survival, 10 kills in 15 minutes is not that many. The same goes for anyone who picks the police class but this time it seems there is no loss in elo for them, except for deaths, so they can farm elo even easier. Another problem is that any player can go undercover and help a friend out by pretending to fight them but in fact just die to them on purpose, 'elo boosting' as it's called in other games. I can't speak for other admins but I know I wouldn't want to spend all my time in-game watching who are suspected of 'elo boosting', especially when we're all too busy watching actual hackers ;D

All of this discourages people to play the game mode, which I assume was one of the goals for this system,  and instead shifts the focus onto gaining elo. Yes, the numbers can be changed, how elo gained can be changed but at the end of the day, gaining elo will be the target and players will want to do that in the easiest and least tiring way possible.

Also, an elo system in any game makes the people very angry, even more so than they are now. :D