Author Topic: Epic Staff  (Read 34876 times)

Offline COBRA

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2020, 03:03:22 pm »
Normally a ban but normally regulars know the rules because they regularly around.
That's not true, iBen. Nobody has ever been banned on Plan B for using any mods which do not give an unfair advantage, even if they impact the game or anyhow reflect at the screen of the other players.
I remember some regular was banned because he had "extra sniper zoom" hacks. You know who was he? I think this mod is not better than that since it gives advantge against other players.


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Offline Saurabh

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2020, 04:09:15 pm »
Mia I am not sure if you have really lost your ability to comprehend or you're intentionally trying to give strawman just for the sake of argument. Also, you seem to have taken most of my questions to staff in general, to be pointed only at you in a blaming way, making you repeat stuff that wasn't even the point.

I think it is safe to say that majority (if not 90%+) of players find this  to be an unimportant reason , if not a stupid one, to mess up how a certain skin should have actually moved like on server side.
If "90%+" of players find their appearance unimportant, then I don't understand why all VIPs aren't using fast skins. I mean, if (almost) nobody cares about appearance, as you say, then there isn't any good reason not to always use a beta skin, considering their competitive advantage.
People DO care about appearance and skins, that's not even the point. But nobody is so obsessed to try to use a skin mod to get his favorite skin move like how it shouldn't be moving on the server-side. I hope you get it this time.

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Even if it is not a major advantage, keeping the smaller hitbox argument aside, it still has an affect on other players' aim because of how they would have 'expected' that skin to move like.
Skin mods were always allowed, even when that resulted in a slightly smaller hitbox.
Okay so where is the announcement? So we assume all skin mods are fair and allowed now?
Why isn't this question about skin mods adressed yet, it's been an year?

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Moreover, players who notice you do this would be curious to achieve something similar and as you can see, might install something worse(fastped.cs) than what you use(skinchange.cs) or something that isn't allowed at all.

I never mentioned there were other mods beyond skinchanger, it was Menace who brought that infamous name to these forums. I didn't know about its existence.

Jonne made it very clear, one is allowed and the other one is not.
I never said it was you who shared those extra mods like fastped.cs. Again, you need to re read.
My point was if you use such unannounced "legal" mods whose effect is noticeable to others, then they might try to get their hands on something similar which might end up in something like people installing something illegal. There's gotta be a clear announcement/discussion when someone  is allowed such mods(from the staff or from that someone).

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We should not compare this cleo's effect(not comparing advantage here) to a simple client side modification like crosshair change.

What Altus meant is that other mods that also bring a slight advantage are allowed. Sniper crosshairs with a smaller dot are a good example. I think that the advantage of a small dot compared to the default, especially when sniping at very large distances, is undeniable.
I know what Altus meant! But you clearly din't get what i meant. I clearly mentioned that I am not comparing the advantage .
Using your mod , without any discussion or announcement will lead to the afore mentioned bullet points while simply changing a crosshair doesn't have server side effects reflected on others' screen. I don't see any server side effect changing crosshair would have. That is why it is important to discuss or at least inform everyone when such mods are being allowed to someone.

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So the question is again the same, why would you(or any staff) not share , or discuss, such (fishy)mods here? That was posted there in 2019 , no one bothered to clarify it since an year now but now we know a player has been using it for months without us being infomed about the leaglity of the same.

Well, I don't think anyone is required to share their mods with the entire community. Most people keep their mods for themselves or, at most, their friends or clan mates. I don't think I did anything atypical in this sense.
I wouldn't expect a player to share his mod that he got approved from staff, and my question wasn't pointed at you as a player. You're part of the staff team, so you should have informed or announced it. If not you, at least Jonne or other staff could have. But as Nikola said in one post, even admins weren't aware of this "approval" you got from Jonne. This is what the concern is. This is not any random mod , majority of players here think this mod is something that should have been discussed or shared about.

Again, this topic isn't just about you as a player, but about staff members(including you) and the clarity that they should provide about mods, specially when dealing with such fishy mods.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 08:36:44 am by Saurabh »

Offline Altus_Demens

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2020, 01:30:02 am »
I remember some regular was banned because he had "extra sniper zoom" hacks. You know who was he? I think this mod is not better than that since it gives advantge against other players.
I do remember this case very well. I am not justifying him, his ban was (is) fair, and the mod which increases the magnification of the sniper zoom is clearly a hack; still it's somewhat similar to the custom crosshairs, which are also aimed to give a more precise view on the target.

This is what I meant, Saurabh, since you mentioned me. The modifications, which are not anyhow reflected on the other players' screens or game experience (at least not directly), can be deadly. And vice versa: harmless mods which do not give any advantage can be visible for the others, like ELM with its flashing lights or weapon reload mod with the reloading animations. These harmless mods have been allowed for a very long time, at least since 2017, although there was never a full list of them.

Do not underestimate the common sense. Do not treat people like idiots by default. If someone can burn their house down with an oven, it doesn't mean that you should be disallowed to have one in your house, right? I think that the criterium of the unfair advantage is good and quite clear. You can use any mod of any kind which does not give it, you cannot use anything which does.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 01:53:53 am by Altus_Demens »
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Offline Saurabh

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2020, 06:34:39 am »
Do not underestimate the common sense. Do not treat people like idiots by default. If someone can burn their house down with an oven, it doesn't mean that you should be disallowed to have one in your house, right?
The point was not about not having a oven coz someone else can burn shit with his own...the point was that when you get such stupid stuff , you (player or staff) either inform others about it or discuss it. None of this would have happened, if there was information like "this skinchanger mod is allowed to be used, don't be surprised" instead of "ohh this player who got reported is using a mod, right....sorry forgot to inform this tyoe of mod is allowed , wasn't it obvious?"
Still no reply here -> link

ELM mod is stupid for the same reason because it's effect is visible to others and is abnormal, it might not be "deadly" to you but it is a distraction and can encourage other to do same modifications, or even worse. Exactly why it has to be(and i guess it is) made clear if it is allowed or not. This one is stupid+ has arguably a slight advantage.

Dude do you even read?

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I think that the criterium of the unfair advantage is good and quite clear. You can use any mod of any kind which does not give it, you cannot use anything which does.
Yeah...no.
Now you're really trying to tell me that everyone here would agree to what level of advantage (if any) a mod gives?
Nope, read all these topics , we already have people having different opinions. Look at topics about sprinthooks and whatnot.

The distinction (or a list) has to be made clear just like how there has been an attempt to make security team duty clear, civ engagement etc.
We can't have gray areas, can't afford them after what you guys let happen with Popcornz (I am sorry to bring this here , but it is still so shameful you guys have no balls to admit your mishandling and to at least apologize to him for handling something that wasn't mentioned anywhere as a rulebreak).

« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 08:37:18 am by Saurabh »

Offline Zeta

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2020, 06:40:37 am »
Idk Why U guys Speaking With This topic
Sorry But Admins Wont Think About Our Votes...

Offline cobby

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2020, 08:07:55 am »
That's it I'm out.
Adminswin win they are allowed to use hacks.

F*****ng stupid.
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Offline Srex_Zangetsu

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2020, 09:47:29 am »
We can't have gray areas, can't afford them after what you guys let happen with Popcornz (I am sorry to bring this here , but it is still so shameful you guys have no balls to admit your mishandling and to at least apologize to him for handling something that wasn't mentioned anywhere as a rulebreak).
Indeed,everything needs to be sorted out,so people would know what to use and what can be reported.
And I'm strongly against ANY types of mods,but,so many people rely on them.Can't you just stick with the normal game,guys?
And how the hell do other servers allow such stuff?Especially this mod that Mia used.
Some inexperienced admin could easily ban you for that.
Or is it that you play nothing but PTP?
Let's roll

Offline Great_Khali

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2020, 11:47:31 am »
This debate is overstretched  already, let me conclude in short

Mia knows the advantage & wants to get away saying it wont give any advantages over others. (If she was fair , she could have played in skin 192 instead of this shitty mod to make it fast skin .

Players like me are just concerned about the after effects of this episode, as i see there will be loss of players if this kind of dictatotship continues.

We moved here just because of tenshi's way of handling things .  Plan B was heaven at start and we have smaller Tenshi's getting born here too. They wont apologize from their heart ever & want power in their hands always.

Jonne is a great guy btw but he is afraid to take any action here.
If this mod gives 0.01% advantage just end it & let abusers apologize . If they remain arrogant then demote them.

Btw Mia's last abuse is enough for her demotion , using admin commands for her benefit and that time too she never apologized.

Over to Altus to defend his friend with long essays  ::)



Offline Jonne

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2020, 12:24:40 pm »
About the mod itself (skinchanger.cs), judging by the comments I've read here and in other topics, I've made a mistake in allowing it. When Mia asked me, I just thought "Sure, she wants to use a fast skin as a female, why not". She already has access to fast skins as a VIP, so I didn't think it would give here any more advantages. Now, I didn't take into account a lot of factors, such as that it might be misleading, her skin shouldn't be moving like that in the first place. Secondly, I didn't take into account the consequences it would have if a non-VIP or a pres/vice would be using it. They don't have access to fast skins, so they would be getting an advantage out of it. That means only some people would be able to use the mod, and we'd have to create rules specifically for when you can/cannot use this mod. If we start having rules for each specific mod, we'll end up with a 20 page rule list, which will only bring more confusion. Another mistake was not informing people that we allowed this mod, I agree that if we allow something, everyone should be aware of it so they can use it themselves as well. So yes, I made a lot of mistakes in this case, and I want to apologise for that.

Now, taking into account these factors, and judging by the responses we got about this mod, we're disallowing this mod. As some people pointed out, it does give an advantage when you use it with a smaller skin than most fast skins and the skin doesn't move as you expect it to move, but I don't think these advantages are very significant. Another reason we're disallowing it, is so we don't have to make specific rules for each mod, so we can give a clear answer. So, from now on, skinchanger.cs is no longer allowed. Again, we're not going to straight up ban people for it, we'll warn them to remove the mod first, so they're aware of this change and have a chance to remove it. Only when they ignore these warnings, we'll move onto punishing people for it. Also, as I said before, we're not going to punish people retroactively for it either, Mia asked me, I allowed it, so I'm not going to punish her for something I allowed.

One other thing, as some people pointed out already, having smaller skins on the client side shouldn't have any effect on hitting them anymore. Since we've introduced the weapon-config, the damage of most weapons (including all bullet weapons), depends on the shooter. So, if you hit their skin in your screen, they will receive that damage.

Now, as I said before, people ask us if mod x or y is allowed all the time, and up until now, we didn't really have a clear process for it. We'd just look into it, and let them know if it's allowed or not. We do have a topic for such questions, but that turned into a mess pretty quickly, with unanswered questions and no clear overview of things. As this situation has pointed out, this isn't working. Only the players who ask will know if a mod is allowed or not, and depending on who they ask, they might get a different answer. So to prevent this from happening in the future, we'll do the following. We'll make a sub-board under the Suggestions section, where you can ask if a certain mod is allowed or not. Every mod will have it's own topic, and once we allow/disallow it, we'll add a tag in the title (for example "[Not allowed]Fastped.cs"). That way, by browsing the board, you'll get a quick and clear overview of which mods are allowed or not. That also allows everyone to give their opinion on why something should be allowed or not allowed, or provide more insights we might not have. This will be the official and only way to ask if a mod is allowed or not (including for admins). If you ask a staff member about a mod, they'll forward you to that section.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 04:29:02 pm by Jonne »

Offline Shark_The_Helicopter

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2020, 01:49:14 pm »
ahahaha what a beautiful thread
%

Offline [RD]MecHaNiC

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2020, 02:21:56 pm »
@Jonne, You got played my friend.

Offline Saurabh

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2020, 03:53:33 pm »
Was waiting for a level 5, or you to conclude. Thanks Jonne.

Offline IDAN

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2020, 06:20:55 pm »
I can't understand you Jonne.
on one hand you say that you did mistake, and let me be honest Mia cause that mistake,She don't tell you that this mod give advantage.
So the question why she hide that information from you??
You can trust her again that she won't do it again? and i really want to know that...


Offline Great_Khali

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2020, 11:06:43 pm »
I can't understand you Jonne.
on one hand you say that you did mistake, and let me be honest Mia cause that mistake,She don't tell you that this mod give advantage.
So the question why she hide that information from you??
You can trust her again that she won't do it again? and i really want to know that...

Thats what is the real issue at hand.

Good that mod is gone now. Mia could have gained some respect if she was honest & had apologized and moved on. But as we all know she had advantage on her side all this time (altus/mia/bully will disagree)

Anyways lets leave the final descision on Karma,


Offline Altus_Demens

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Re: Epic Staff
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2020, 11:43:14 pm »
I can't understand you Jonne.
on one hand you say that you did mistake, and let me be honest Mia cause that mistake,She don't tell you that this mod give advantage.
So the question why she hide that information from you??
You can trust her again that she won't do it again? and i really want to know that...
Thats what is the real issue at hand.

Good that mod is gone now. Mia could have gained some respect if she was honest & had apologized and moved on. But as we all know she had advantage on her side all this time (altus/mia/bully will disagree)

Anyways lets leave the final descision on Karma,
??? I told at least 5 (five) times: the "advantage" given by this mod is absolutely impossible to use, compared to the "normal" fast skins. Jonne repeated the same above. I told at least 5 (five) times: no need to believe anyone, go and try it yourself, so you will see. Have you done it? No. However, you keep repeating the same statement over and over again, like a broken record. I realize that we've got a free, democratic forum here and you can basically say what you want, but I do not understand what are you doing it for.

Anyway, yeah, everything is settled, what is done, is done. This is my last comment here regarding this situation, if anybody wants to talk to me about it privately, feel free.
A paltry man and poor of mind
At all things ever mocks;
For never he knows, what he ought to know,
That he is not free from faults.