Plan B
General => Suggestions => Closed => Topic started by: YoMama on October 06, 2016, 09:09:54 am
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I suggested a permutation of this a while ago but made the mistake of mixing it with another suggestion, so it got buried.
TL;DR:
I think that the "aircamping" timer should be removed, and that the President should be allowed to fly Rustlers and aircraft slower than Rustlers.
I think the "aircamping" thing should be removed because it is unnecessary and discourages Presidents from flying. If the person flying the President (or the President, if he is allowed to fly) can land in a reasonably small space, then they can very easily get more health and the timer is simply an annoyance. However, I rarely see people even getting to that point because the President often flips out about the timer and either demands to be brought back down to the ground or jumps, which doesn't tend to end well. The timer is eliminating a whole dimension from the game (literally- a good portion of the Z axis).
If you think that removing the "aircamping" thing and letting Presidents fly will make it impossible to kill the President, consider that this is analogous to Presidents riding NRGs- a good stunter can outdo most of the server. However, there are always ways to defeat them if their pursuers are so motivated- get a plane and ram them off their stunt spot, or snipe them, or shoot out their tires when they're running. I often get thwarted by people who predict what I'm going to do (not hard, since I'm an NRG whore) before I even get going.
Rustlers are the same way- there is a finite amount of space that you can fly in. Anybody with a bit of strategy can force even the best pilot into sniper or AK range, or force them into a dogfight. Even I have a lot of trouble dogfighting two or more people at once. It's also extremely rare for me to go through only one Rustler in 15 minutes- I almost always crash at least one plane. I often get the President to surf on the wing of my Rustler, and it's fairly rare that I can pull it off for more than about five minutes (not because he falls, but because I get shot down). I often get shot down by people on the ground with snipers without another Rustler even being involved. If I can't always handle it, then I highly doubt that this will end badly if any President can fly and has multiple Terrorists coming after him.
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Negative, newbies will not be able to kill the president so fast. Their response will be like " Boring server " when the regulars kill them.
So better now to allow the president to drive by himself.
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Negative, newbies will not be able to kill the president so fast. Their response will be like " Boring server " when the regulars kill them.
So better now to allow the president to drive by himself.
I don't see this often being true, and if it were, how it would change anything. Can newbies kill the President when he is skilled with NRGs? Can newbies kill the President when his security are skilled? Not easily- but they try, and it makes it exciting. If they can't take a challenge, then they probably aren't going to like this server anyway.
Also, you're implying that only skilled people will fly planes as President- I have actually noticed that newbies tend to gravitate towards planes more than regulars, until they find out about the stupid "aircamping" thing. There was a glitch in the old PTP that let unregistered players (often the aforementioned newbies) fly planes as President- I never saw anyone complain that it was boring when it happened, apart from the goody two-shoes players spamming that "the President can't fly". Most of the time they crashed or were shot down within a few minutes as most. As it currently stands, I can have the President surf on the wing of my Rustler and dogfight people while he's there. Why can't I fly the Rustler as President when it's functionally the same?
Don't you think the newbies could be as disappointed as I am to know that they can't fly planes as President? Or that very few Presidents fly because of the stupid "aircamping" thing, so they don't get to chase him in a Rustler?
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Negative, newbies will not be able to kill the president so fast. Their response will be like " Boring server " when the regulars kill them.
So better now to allow the president to drive by himself.
I don't see this being often true, or if it were, how it would change anything. Can the newbies kill the President when he is skilled with NRGs? Can newbies kill the President when his security are skilled? Not easily- but they try, and it makes it exciting. If they can't take a challenge, then they probably aren't going to like this server anyway. Also, you're implying that only skilled people will fly planes as President- I have actually noticed that newbies tend to gravitate towards planes more than regulars, until they find out about the stupid "aircamping" thing. As it currently stands, I can have the President surf on the wing of my Rustler and dogfight people while he's there. Why can't I fly the Rustler as President when it's functionally the same?
No, I didn't mean that.
What I wanted to say if a president is in a bike(NRG) or even BMX, there are plenty of chances to get killed. How ? I will tell you, 2 terrorists are enough to do that, they got spas and using spas as a passenger is way different. But in case of flying, it will be easy only for the vips by using snipers. And a newbie president will first rush to a heli or rustler.
Considering this fact I voted negative.
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- 1 , because there are a limited no. of aircrafts available so all the players who want to chase or protect wont be able to participate!
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What I wanted to say if a president is in a bike(NRG) or even BMX, there are plenty of chances to get killed. How ? I will tell you, 2 terrorists are enough to do that, they got spas and using spas as a passenger is way different.
Nope- I can make it extremely difficult for 2 terrorists on an NRG, no matter how good they are, just by outrunning them in a straight line. The fix? Be a VIP and snipe, just like you said:
... it will be easy only for the vips by using snipers.
Also, you can DB with a combat shotgun or any other DB weapon in Dodos and Beagles. There are plenty of other ways to get killed in a plane- you have to get off the ground, take off without being shot down, and not crash into anything once you're in the air and avoiding a bunch of terrorists. Unlike NRGs, it's not really possible to outrun another Rustler.
And a newbie president will first rush to a heli or rustler.
... and subsequently crash it. They do this already and get annoyed when they can't fly.
- 1 , because there are a limited no. of aircrafts available so all the players who want to chase or protect wont be able to participate!
There are more than enough in most maps, and if there aren't, add more aircraft.
Think about this: I can fly the President as a Security on a Rustler or in a multiple-seater, and the gameplay in the air will go almost exactly the same way as if I were flying myself as President. Where is the problem here, if that's already OK?
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Nope. Bad idea
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Nope. Bad idea
Why? What might this mess up, considering I can already fly the President on a Rustler as a Security and get the same result?
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Look, what I actually ment is if someone goes president and stay at the air most of the time.. What we will do ? Obviously we will ride a rustler and chase him. Rigt ? But for newbies, they can't do this so it will be a negation for them.
Regarding the NRGs,
If a terrorist is driving a bike, I will just hop onto his bike and snip your little tires, your career will be finished there.
If the president will be on foot, it will be more fun than flying a rustler/planes.
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Look, what I actually ment is if someone goes president and stay at the air most of the time.. What we will do ? Obviously we will ride a rustler and chase him. Rigt ? But for newbies, they can't do this so it will be a negation for them.
The newbie will have trouble with much more than just flying- as I said, if they can't handle a challenge, they probably can't handle many other things in the server anyway. Also, don't forget that it's highly likely that the President would be one of the mythical newbies that you speak of. Pilots who are hard to shoot down are as at least as rare as people who are hard to chase because they stunt and know clever shortcuts.
Regarding the NRGs,
If a terrorist is driving a bike, I will just hop onto his bike and snip your little tires, your career will be finished there.
You're missing my point. If you're sniping, then you're using VIP weapons. You were arguing that the President should not be allowed to fly because it would be difficult to kill a flying President without VIP weapons. Even if this were true, which it isn't, it would be the same as the President being on an NRG, if not easier because you can't turn a corner to stop the sniper from hitting you.
If the president will be on foot, it will be more fun than flying a rustler/planes.
That's just like, your opinion, man. There are definitely people who disagree with you.
I've suggested this many times on the old forums and gotten the response that it "will be boring" or "too hard" if the President can fly himself. First of all, it doesn't address the fact that allowing the President to fly in reality changes very little. Second, in my opinion, it's extremely shortsighted. I used to chase the President in Rustlers almost exclusively, because I thought NRGs were monotonous and difficult to drive. After playing with NRGs more I found that I was wrong- I now enjoy chasing on the ground and in the air. Just because you might not be good at it yet doesn't mean you'll hate it when you actually do it.
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Would be interesting to see Presidents in planes. We should give it a chance, and if it turns out it's not working for some reason then it can be removed again
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Insured that map borders will be remade since that is good camping spot to avoid rustler dmg.
And im not sure that ruslers max flying height is the same as helicopters.
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I like this idea. I don't really get why people mostly don't like NRG or Rustler chases. I enjoy it maybe even more than prolonged stronghold sieges... Depends on the mood. ;D What is really hard is to chase biker stunter president. In many cases you also need to be pro bike stunter to catch them. Though I don't think president shouldn't be allowed to ride BMX.
Less restrictions means more fun. +1.
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Altus on rustler and nrg very easy survive, there no team work, when i play a presi, i prefere give more action for ppl around) when presi alone run away, its borry)
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Would be interesting to see Presidents in planes. We should give it a chance, and if it turns out it's not working for some reason then it can be removed again
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Mark in past was some bug and presi can use some planes, its bad idea)
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+1
It's not any worse than NRG whoring presis that survive a whole LV round almost flawlessly speeding around Julius Thruway.
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No. After all those chases are part of terrorists' duty, but I don't think it's a good idea to keep the whole security team
unsuccesfully trying to reach the president for 15 minutes. Any new addition to the gamemode should encourage security to work together with the president, like real bodyguards, not the opposite.
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No. After all those chases are part of terrorists' duty, but I don't think it's a good idea to keep the whole security team unsuccesfully trying to reach the president for 15 minutes. Any new addition to the gamemode should encourage security to work together with the president, like real bodyguards, not the opposite.
Well, in real life Presidents have emergency planes on their disposal. Sure, they don't pilot themselves, but you get my meaning here. Like I said, we should add it and see how it goes, it can't hurt. And maybe the solution is to make only Shamal available to the President so that at least some Securities can follow him.
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Altus on rustler and nrg very easy survive, there no team work, when i play a presi, i prefere give more action for ppl around) when presi alone run away, its borry)
This is interesting ^^
YoMama, sorry i just said my opinion it's ok if they disagree.
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Insured that map borders will be remade since that is good camping spot to avoid rustler dmg.
And im not sure that ruslers max flying height is the same as helicopters.
You can't really camp in a Rustler- running away is the worst thing you can do, strategically. A lot of people think that Rustlers can't fly as high as helicopters. Helicopters can go to 815 on /dl. If you fly above 800 in a Rustler, you get pulled back down to 800 at some point- it's like your engine dies. However, you can push it up, but it's difficult to do- I want to say I've gotten to at least 850, but I'd have to try again to find out how high you can go. If you think this would be ideal for camping, it isn't. You come falling down from above 800 with very little speed, so you're not in a good position. Also, if you are stupid enough to go all the way to the top of the map, you've thrown away your altitude advantage- you're sort of screwed.
No. After all those chases are part of terrorists' duty, but I don't think it's a good idea to keep the whole security team unsuccesfully trying to reach the president for 15 minutes.
I fly the President around as security often. I almost always have some security flying with me. If there are enough Rustlers, their ability to stick with the President is dependent on their skill level, not the fact that the President is in the air.
Altus on rustler and nrg very easy survive, there no team work, when i play a presi, i prefere give more action for ppl around) when presi alone run away, its borry)
Any new addition to the gamemode should encourage security to work together with the president, like real bodyguards, not the opposite.
There is teamwork involved- as I said above, the security don't just give up when planes are involved- if they do, they're bad security. Just because the security aren't in the same vehicle as the President doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything. I often follow the President on an NRG, usually alone, so he can jack me or get on if he gets into trouble, and so I can take out the terrorists chasing him without slowing him down by being his passenger or waiting for people to get super close before I can shoot them. The president often has a cadre of security on bikes. I don't think having a President flying around with a little formation of security Rustlers surrounding him would show a lack of teamwork.
... maybe the solution is to make only Shamal available to the President so that at least some Securities can follow him.
Bad idea- Shamals are very fast, it would actually be quite difficult to shoot a President down if he were in a Shamal. If someone chases you, you just outrun them with pure speed and/or climb up to a higher altitude so quickly that they can't follow. I think anything faster than a Rustler (Shamals and Hydras) should be unavailable to him or limited for this reason. In the case of the Shamal, if he were able to fly it, I would put a harsh timer on it, for example, once he takes off, he has 1:30 to get out of it (give him a timer he can see) before he "runs out of gas" like they do in roleplay servers. Again, this is the only penalty timer I would support on planes.
YoMama, sorry i just said my opinion it's ok if they disagree.
I don't mind if you disagree with me! That's one of the reasons why the forum exists, so people can debate things like this. I'm not that petty (or at least I don't think I am ;) ).
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... maybe the solution is to make only Shamal available to the President so that at least some Securities can follow him.
Bad idea- Shamals are very fast, it would actually be quite difficult to shoot a President down if he were in a Shamal. If someone chases you, you just outrun them with pure speed and/or climb up to a higher altitude so quickly that they can't follow. I think anything faster than a Rustler (Shamals and Hydras) should be unavailable to him or limited for this reason. In the case of the Shamal, if he were able to fly it, I would put a harsh timer on it, for example, once he takes off, he has 1:30 to get out of it (give him a timer he can see) before he "runs out of gas" like they do in roleplay servers. Again, this is the only penalty timer I would support on planes.
Had no idea that Shamals were actually faster than Rustlers LOL xD Well, in that case I agree with you on that timer thingy, it could just work
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Had no idea that Shamals were actually faster than Rustlers LOL xD Well, in that case I agree with you on that timer thingy, it could just work
lol bro xD shamal is in jet class and almost has same speed with hydras :D
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What about those who cant ride a Rustler???
No. After all those chases are part of terrorists' duty, but I don't think it's a good idea to keep the whole security team unsuccesfully trying to reach the president for 15 minutes. Any new addition to the gamemode should encourage security to work together with the president, like real bodyguards, not the opposite.
Agree. -1
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I know that u can get same height in rustler as heli`s, but you can barely aim and shoot when you moving from 800 to 850. Maybe putting a horizontal border at 800-point will solve this problem.
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What about those who cant ride a Rustler???
Learn!
I know that u can get same height in rustler as heli`s, but you can barely aim and shoot when you moving from 800 to 850. Maybe putting a horizontal border at 800-point will solve this problem.
Sure, but it's unnecessary. Dropping down from 850 to 800 makes you a sitting duck.
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What about those who cant ride a Rustler???
Learn!
"Hey, I need to kill the presi, but he is on a rustler! I need to learn to fly rustler in less than 15 minutes!"
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I fly the President around as security often. I almost always have some security flying with me. If there are enough Rustlers, their ability to stick with the President is dependent on their skill level, not the fact that the President is in the air.
Of course it's possible to escort the president no matter what he's doing, but I'm just saying it will discourage teamwork. Especially if you consider that the security team is usually a group of newbies that can barely stick with the president when he's camping or driving around in a regular car.
It's all about making the security necessary for presidents' survival and create more action and fights. I understand that camping on an aircraft is much safer and easier for the president, but he can't simply ignore his team, because they also need to have fun, take part in the survival and feel useful in any sort of way.
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What about those who cant ride a Rustler???
Learn!
It's not easy to learn how to fly with Rustler especially for those newbies in this game.
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Shamals ? LOL wtf ?
Yomama you type too much, summerise your essays..
I completely disagree on the basis of above replies.
Good luck.
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It's not easy to learn how to fly with Rustler especially for those newbies in this game.
"Hey, I need to kill the presi, but he is on a rustler! I need to learn to fly rustler in less than 15 minutes!"
That's not even an argument. If you don't know how to fly a Rustler already, you should probably learn. If you're new to PTP, then there is a lot more than Rustlers you have to worry about. I suck on the ground, but at least I do it and try to get better.
Especially if you consider that the security team is usually a group of newbies that can barely stick with the president when he's camping or driving around in a regular car.
...so worst-case scenario, nothing would change?
It's all about making the security necessary for presidents' survival and create more action and fights. I understand that camping on an aircraft is much safer and easier for the president, but he can't simply ignore his team, because they also need to have fun, take part in the survival and feel useful in any sort of way.
Flying around is a high-risk proposition- you can't jack someone else's plane after you're shot down, if you hit anything you're pretty much screwed, and you can't really run from people. In case you haven't noticed, my strategy is to follow other planes so they can't shoot me. If the plane I'm following has someone with a gun surfing on it, I can't do it. You and Altus did this to me yesterday when I tried this and one of you was surfing. This kind of thing certainly makes the security necessary- the President can stay out of the way and let the security shoot the terrorists down, or have a security in/on his plane so he has a gunner for defense.
Shamals ? LOL wtf ?
You could at least try reading the first lines of my essays before you comment:
... maybe the solution is to make only Shamal available to the President so that at least some Securities can follow him.
Bad idea- Shamals are very fast, it would actually be quite difficult to shoot a President down if he were in a Shamal.
Unfortunately, I like to explain why I hold my position- instead of just stating it. My replies are often longer as a result.
Yomama you type too much, summerise your essays..
OK, here is a summary of everything I've been saying: I think this will change very little, except for opening up the air to the president. Good presidents will still be good, bad presidents will still be bad. Good security will still be able to keep up, bad or unskilled security will still lag behind. Presidents will still be incapable of outrunning the terrorists in every situation. VIPs will still have the ultimate anti-president weapon in most situations, the sniper rifle. Teamwork will still be the best way to win. It will still be possible, as Spectre said, to modify the rules again if this doesn't work out.
TL;DR: Read what I wrote above, it's only seven sentences.
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To make this thing happen, we also need to make Security class for registered only players, because we mostly get the randoms/first time players spawn as Security and there goes a chance of survival not to mention shooting each other in the spawn as well as jacking each other until the President dies in his own spawn..
Good idea in general, not great in what we currently have as so called Security class
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It's not easy to learn how to fly with Rustler especially for those newbies in this game.
"Hey, I need to kill the presi, but he is on a rustler! I need to learn to fly rustler in less than 15 minutes!"
That's not even an argument. If you don't know how to fly a Rustler already, you should probably learn. If you're new to PTP, then there is a lot more than Rustlers you have to worry about. I suck on the ground, but at least I do it and try to get better.
Im not talking about myself, im talking about other player/new player who cant ride Rustler.
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Since the number of people for and against are pretty evenly distributed, I'm willing to give this a try. The only question is now, allow all aircrafts or disallow some (Shamal, Hydra, ...)? Once we decide that, we'll test it for a month and then vote to keep or remove it.
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Since the number of people for and against are pretty evenly distributed, I'm willing to give this a try. The only question is now, allow all aircrafts or disallow some (Shamal, Hydra, ...)? Once we decide that, we'll test it for a month and then vote to keep or remove it.
Thanks for being open to trying it. I think everything should be allowed but Hydras and Shamals. With a Hydra and some skill, the president could both avoid being shot down and stop other people from taking off fairly easily. Shamals are too nimble when they aren't hobbled by a surfer. Everything else is either too slow or too lumbering to be able to avoid opposing Rustlers (and especially Hydras). The president could already be flown in most of these allowed planes as a passenger, so in my analysis it will essentially make no difference. The president's ability to fly Rustlers may need some fine-tuning, but I doubt that even at the most extreme case it will be much different balance-wise from his ability to ride NRGs- this is the only thing I'm not pretty sure about.
Are you willing to try removing the aircamping timer as well? If so, it would probably be better to try it after this has gone through a trial period, or perhaps try it in only one map (like NSA).
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Locking this, see here: http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=958.0