Plan B
General => Suggestions => Added => Topic started by: YoMama on March 09, 2017, 08:00:30 am
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BEFORE YOU VOTE: check the topic here (http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=1115.0) for penalties, then vote for your combination. You can change your vote on both polls.
I didn't really think the poll before (http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=958.0) had enough options, so I'm making this one.
I'm also suggesting adding:
- A message on the mainchat which says when the President is in a plane
- Enough planes so that it is possible to easily chase the President. This isn't really a problem at airports- I think there should be more helis and Cropdusters scattered around to make getting to the airport easier.
For my vote: as I've said before, because he can already be flown in or on all vehicles with the same difficulty for both the person flying him and the people chasing, I think the President should be able to fly everything but Shamals and Hydras.
Since I couldn't make the poll so it allowed multiple selections, we'll add up the total counts for all the aircraft classes I've included at the end. Here's what it looks like, from the current numbers:
(http://i.imgur.com/tqCI1b7.png) (https://ufile.io/4da331)
Click on the picture to get the .ods (LibreOffice/OpenOffice) spreadsheet that the screenshot came from- just change the Votes column, and the rest will update.
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Just accept the fact that president shouldn't drive any aircraft at all yoma ,everyweek you start a topic about this and iven they gaved it a try but it isn't good at all . iven if president have to drive an aircraft i think that must be just a helicopter ..
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as fas as i know he was always able to fly a plane. Since i started at plan b he wasnt. i still remember yomama winning the map in a rustler. with securitys on the wings. a rustler is easy to take down if you can control a rustler. if you cant fly a rustler properly you shouldnt play samp.
hydra and shamal arent planes a president should fly himself. a rustler should be. although a punishment for camping in the air might be an idea for those who want it.
although i disagree on that to. camping in area is allowed to while this is impossible to get in when you are alone against 5 or more security.
final conlusion. just add the damn rustler for president with no punishment.
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I didn't really think the poll before (http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=958.0) had enough options, so I'm making this one.
+1
Also, I rlly saw many unregistered players having fun with this feature. IMO, the only problem was no health penalize, ppl "abuse" it camping on air.
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he shouldn't fly EVER
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+1 it may be nice if president can fly all with air camping
except Hydra and shamals
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as fas as i know he was always able to fly a plane. Since i started at plan b he wasnt. i still remember yomama winning the map in a rustler. with securitys on the wings. a rustler is easy to take down if you can control a rustler. if you cant fly a rustler properly you shouldnt play samp.
That was one of I think two times that I flew as President in the old server- I concluded then that it wasn't a big deal at all, since I ended up being killed one of those times because more than two people chased me. It really is just as difficult to survive in a plane if people actually try to kill you.
It was possible because Tenshi coded the presidential flight restrictions on a per-vehicle basis, not across the entire vehicle type (as I think Jonne has done), and he only did it for players who were level 1 on certain aircraft- so if you were unregistered or a VIP, certain planes were flyable, which I noticed from watching the unregistered players take off (then immediately crash their plane, usually). I thought it might have been a hack that let them stay in, so I tested it and figured it out.
Why I'm mentioning how this worked: if it had been a big deal in the past, I think someone would have made a suggestion to fix it (and it definitely wasn't uncommon).
if you cant fly a rustler properly you shouldnt play samp...a punishment for camping in the air might be an idea for those who want it...although i disagree on that to. camping in area is allowed to while this is impossible to get in when you are alone against 5 or more security...just add the damn rustler for president with no punishment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6c1k_26T3k
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Personally I can't say I am against your suggestion. We've got a short period when president was allowed to use any aircraft, and I can't say that it changed my gaming experience too much.
In the meantime, let's admit that, when we talk about presidential air camping, we talk about rustlers, shamals or helicopters in 99% of cases. Our players have recently decided that they don't want presidents to use aircraft - and mostly they meant rustlers. Besides, none of your option covers rustlers. And even if it did... I don't know, I feel like nobody would use cropdusters, stuntplanes and dodos as president anyways. So, for now I will pick the last option.
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Personally I can't say I am against your suggestion...Our players have recently decided that they don't want presidents to use aircraft - and mostly they meant rustlers...Besides, none of your option covers rustlers....So, for now I will pick the last option.
First of all, it does cover only stopping the President from flying Rustlers- check the "All aircraft except for Shamals, Hydras and Rustlers" option. You can change your vote. I would be ready to bet that if you put this poll in the game and got a 100% response rate from people that understood it, the President would be able to fly everything. It's the people on the forums who claim falsely that it will ruin the gamemode, while they meanwhile ignore the President much of the time because he's only one kill for their K/D ratio and either armor camp or hunt new players.
The whole point is that you vote how you personally want to vote, you don't vote to reflect how you think everyone else feels. That's how morons like Trump get elected.
In the meantime, let's admit that, when we talk about presidential air camping, we talk about rustlers, shamals or helicopters in 99% of cases...I don't know, I feel like nobody would use cropdusters, stuntplanes and dodos as president anyways. So, for now I will pick the last option.
I have always said that "air camping" is a bullshit misnomer. "Camping" implies that it's defensible, which it isn't- anyone in a Rustler or slower can be shot down given enough time to get to them and two planes or a plane and a gunner against them. You know this, and I think many other people do as well, though it's convenient for them not to admit it, because then they'd often be admitting they don't have the skill to do it because they're unfortunately used to an entire dimension of the game being cut out (I think this would be a non-issue if flying had always been allowed).
People used to fly the Cropdusters in WV and LV all the time in the old server, when it was badly coded. They probably would have flown Stuntplanes and Dodos if they could have. Just because you wrongly think no one would use them, they apparently shouldn't be allowed?
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No need of the message showing in the mainchat that the president is in a plane or whatever,
Just use /intel and get over it
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First of all, it does cover only stopping the President from flying Rustlers- check the "All aircraft except for Shamals, Hydras and Rustlers" option. You can change your vote.
Either I am blind, or this option was not present yesterday. Both are equally possible though.
I would be ready to bet that if you put this poll in the game and got a 100% response rate from people that understood it, the President would be able to fly everything. It's the people on the forums who claim falsely that it will ruin the gamemode, while they meanwhile ignore the President much of the time because he's only one kill for their K/D ratio and either armor camp or hunt new players.
If it was a pass against me, then you've got apparently no idea about how I am playing. Anyways, it looks more like demagoguery. Most of the players wouldn't just care anyways. You are maybe right about our regulars, but newbies don't always follow the gamemode as well because they are confused and they've got no idea about what to do. Go on, ask newbies ingame, collect their replies and show their opinion to us without those empty statements. In turn, I would be ready to bet that 90% would ignore you, 5% would say something like "I don't care" and only 5% remaining would probably reply anything constructive. Most of more or less regular players have an account here, on Forums - they are free to express their opinion. But why do we always see the same persons in the Suggestions board?
The whole point is that you vote how you personally want to vote, you don't vote to reflect how you think everyone else feels.
I am always trying to say and to do what I consider to be right. It doesn't always work IRL unfortunately, but we are free from most of the frames here, in the Internet. So, you can be sure that I am sincere in what I am saying here. I just think that, if you suggested something and it got refused, it is not a right thing to do to expose it again under different wrapper. When we talk about presidents using airplanes, we talk mostly about rustlers. Less often - about shamals or hydras. Our community - active part of our community - doesn't want it, whether you like it or not. I don't like when my suggestions got refused as well, I also consider them to be sane and needed. But I am not alone on the server. Even if I was... As I said, it didn't change my gaming experience. So I wouldn't probably change anything - just for the sake of nonincreasing entropy.
That's how morons like Trump get elected.
It made me laugh IRL, thank you. Not the phrase itself - I don't know, maybe it is true - but the context you've used it within.
I have always said that "air camping" is a bullshit misnomer. "Camping" implies that it's defensible, which it isn't- anyone in a Rustler or slower can be shot down given enough time to get to them and two planes or a plane and a gunner against them. You know this, and I think many other people do as well, though it's convenient for them not to admit it, because then they'd often be admitting they don't have the skill to do it because they're unfortunately used to an entire dimension of the game being cut out (I think this would be a non-issue if flying had always been allowed).
For obvious reasons I won't be playing linguistic games with you, but we both understand what they mean when they call it "camping" - president uses this "closed" third dimension as a "place" to camp, a place unreachable for most newbies and half of regulars due to their poor aircraft skills. Again, whether you like it or not, it is a fact. I maybe agree that players' lack of skill is not a valid reason to prohibit anything - but, again, our community has already expressed its opinion about it.
People used to fly the Cropdusters in WV and LV all the time in the old server, when it was badly coded. They probably would have flown Stuntplanes and Dodos if they could have. Just because you wrongly think no one would use them, they apparently shouldn't be allowed?
Again, let's leave demagoguery behind. You don't know if Stuntplanes, Dodos, Cropdusters etc would be flown if they were allowed so it is incorrect to claim that statement to be right or wrong.
Anyways... Since you've added the respective option and since it comes along with my position better than the others, I will change my vote to the third option. Let's see how this plays out.
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If it was a pass against me, then you've got apparently no idea about how I am playing. Anyways, it looks more like demagoguery. Most of the players wouldn't just care anyways. You are maybe right about our regulars, but newbies don't always follow the gamemode as well because they are confused and they've got no idea about what to do. Go on, ask newbies ingame, collect their replies and show their opinion to us without those empty statements. In turn, I would be ready to bet that 90% would ignore you, 5% would say something like "I don't care" and only 5% remaining would probably reply anything constructive. Most of more or less regular players have an account here, on Forums - they are free to express their opinion. But why do we always see the same persons in the Suggestions board?
It wasn't a pass at you. Note I said "if you got a 100% response rate". I think most people don't care either way, which is why I think it wouldn't be disallowed if you got that response rate. I also believe that more people in game like it than people on the forums- though I still saw plenty of regulars using Rustlers. I know I can't prove this, but neither can you say that "our community" voted. Our forum community did.
I just think that, if you suggested something and it got refused, it is not a right thing to do to expose it again under different wrapper. When we talk about presidents using airplanes, we talk mostly about rustlers. Less often - about shamals or hydras. Our community - active part of our community - doesn't want it, whether you like it or not. I don't like when my suggestions got refused as well, I also consider them to be sane and needed. But I am not alone on the server. Even if I was... As I said, it didn't change my gaming experience. So I wouldn't probably change anything - just for the sake of nonincreasing entropy.
This is not the exact same question under a different wrapper. The last poll was under entirely different conditions and had two options that were basically the equivalent of "do you want to see an entire component of GTA cut out from PTP or not?". This poll actually lets people choose between what I see as major groups of aircraft with some nuance. This one has 35 combined options (7 penalty X 5 aircraft types) and is trending toward limited flying being allowed, which I expected. You'll note what I said at the beginning of this:
[Aircraft that aren't Hydras or Shamals are] either too slow or too lumbering to be able to avoid opposing Rustlers (and especially Hydras). The president could already be flown in most of these allowed planes as a passenger, so in my analysis it will essentially make no difference. The president's ability to fly Rustlers may need some fine-tuning, but I doubt that even at the most extreme case it will be much different balance-wise from his ability to ride NRGs- this is the only thing I'm not pretty sure about.
Are you willing to try removing the aircamping timer as well? If so, it would probably be better to try it after this has gone through a trial period, or perhaps try it in only one map (like NSA).
Again, let's leave demagoguery behind. You don't know if Stuntplanes, Dodos, Cropdusters etc would be flown if they were allowed so it is incorrect to claim that statement to be right or wrong.
Cropdusters were flown a lot in the old PTP when certain ones could be flown, because of bad coding. I think certain Dodos and Beagles were flyable as well, but I honestly don't remember. All three were also flown by the President when he could fly at the beginning of this year- I know, because I flew them. While yes, in comparison to Rustlers and helicopters, they weren't flown as often, they were certainly used. My point is that I really don't understand why you would limit their use just because you think no one would use them.
Anyways... Since you've added the respective option and since it comes along with my position better than the others, I will change my vote to the third option. Let's see how this plays out.
It's been there the whole time... thank you for being willing to change your vote.
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I think I should only drive helicopters by losing hp
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Here are the final results:
(http://i.imgur.com/1z9g0oj.png)
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Next time, if you want people to select multiple options, you can set "Maximum votes per user" to a different value. For example, if you want them to select up to 3 options, you should set that value to 3.
From what I understand now, the most voted combination is to allow presidents to fly all aircrafts, except Rustlers, Shamals and Hydras, and to keep the aircamping as it is, right? I don't have a problem putting this to the test again, if the majority agrees, but it won't be any time soon though. We just tried something like this, got rid of it, so I'll leave some time in between now before we do another test like this.
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Next time, if you want people to select multiple options, you can set "Maximum votes per user" to a different value. For example, if you want them to select up to 3 options, you should set that value to 3.
I wasn't sure how to do it, and I figured that this was probably the most accurate way to vote, as it involved all the different classes of aircraft and the different combinations of the groups that I see as being the most significant- slow planes, helis, and Rustlers. I considered a Google survey kind of thing but I didn't want to introduce ethics questions by self-reporting results of a survey that I clearly have an interest in.
From what I understand now, the most voted combination is to allow presidents to fly all aircrafts, except Rustlers, Shamals and Hydras, and to keep the aircamping as it is, right? I don't have a problem putting this to the test again, if the majority agrees, but it won't be any time soon though. We just tried something like this, got rid of it, so I'll leave some time in between now before we do another test like this.
Yes, that is the most voted combination in the end. As you can see, I counted votes for or against based on the options in each choice to get an aggregate percent for each aircraft group at the end, with votes counting from the midpoint (39/2). By my math, the percent for allowing helicopters is (39/2+3)/39 = 57.7%, allowing Rustlers is (39/2-13)/39 = 16.7%, and allowing planes that are not Rustlers, Hydras, or Shamals is (39/2+9)/39 = 73.1%. The majority in the other simple poll was for leaving the flying punishment as it is, yes.
I created this poll because I felt pretty confident that the majority of the server would be OK with the President flying the crappy planes and all helicopters, and maybe (I knew it was a stretch) Rustlers if aircamping were a separate question. Since the original vote was 60.4% against all flying without aircamping, and the current majority is 13% higher for crappy planes and only 3% lower for helis, I don't really feel that another test is necessary. I still think that this poll would have ended even more positively for flying if it had always been allowed- I think people are worried that they don't have skills that they would have acquired naturally if planes had been allowed all along, and they vote against flying for that reason.
With the flying punishment left the same, this isn't functionally different from the security flying the the president because none of the planes or helis are better than the multiple-seaters the security can fly him in already, with the exception of the stuntplane, which is still easy to shoot down since it's so slow and often it's too responsive for people to fly it without crashing it. Whether I'm flying the president in a dodo as security or I'm flying a dodo as President with the security in the passenger seat, I'm still flying a yellow blip around with terrorists trying to shoot me down and we're both in parachutes when we get shot down. If anything, it's more dangerous for a president to fly himself because he can't get out as easily when he's shot down.
It's obviously your choice, but I think that the majority combination should be added instead of tested again, then suggestions afterwards would fine-tune things if that's even necessary (like whether or not specific aircraft would be allowed, for example).