Author Topic: Communications privacy  (Read 13843 times)

Offline Saurabh

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2018, 01:09:16 pm »
"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.

How we will know that this feature is removed even though it is announced ?
Coz there no reason they would want to lie about removing it(power is in their hands to accept or deny the suggestion anyway) and i can trust them in that situation. At least it will be a pseudo effect. Better than having this thought that someone might be too bored to read others' drama(like matt said he loves doing XD)

In current situation, admins have the ability to read pms and some of them might ague they don't read personal pms thay don't threaten the server/rules, but I can't trust when they say that. Note that I'm not saying they are irresponsible to leak any private data but only that it is uncomfortable to know that someone is reading your PMs.
It is just human nature..
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 01:20:13 pm by Saurabh »

Offline Skittles

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2018, 01:34:23 pm »
Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
Man... i said that it became some admin's hobby so you could imagine!

Yes, we don't sleep at night, we read players' private messages from the whole day on a group conversation of all admins. And when there is some funny one, we leak it to the mod team so we can all laugh together.





About the suggestion itself, I personally keep supporting this feature being removed or limited as it infringes the privacy of players.

Offline Miau

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2018, 01:09:47 am »
@Mia, just like you have suggested numerous of things in the past ( cmds, notifications and etc), to be added to level 3 in order to make their job easier

Well, I don't think that any of the suggestions I made could give me strategic advantage in-game. Reading PMs does.

Believe me

According to your colleague Nikola, access to PMs allows you to monitor insulting, flaming (which are both allowed) and spamming (which spam victims can stop themselves). According to your colleague Skittles, this suggestion should be implemented. So I don't think there are many reasons to "believe you", as your reply seems to be based on personal interest rather than on facts. Or, if it is based on facts, you and your colleagues live in different realities.

@Mia, in your first post in this topic you stated that you fully agree with Aksel's suggestion and didn't explicitly disagree about the PM content being limited to level 5's only, which is why I assumed that by "admins" you meant level 4 admins. Alright, sure, if PMs were to be disabled for admins, the only objectively fair thing would be for them to be disabled for every single staff member.

Well, if Jonne considers that leaving PMs out of everyone's reach isn't prudent and that at least the three level 5's should have access to them, I personally think that would be much fairer (4.33 times fairer) than having 13 people with access.

Things like scamming or begging are not in the official rule list, but people have been warned (some even banned) in extreme cases for the nuisance it caused to other players.

I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.

What if the "peeing cats" could be taught not to pee in other "houses" instead of having to be removed all the time?

Exactly. But that's up to you, as you are the owner of the cat and you are the one who suffers the consequences of its behavior. It's not up to me, that I'm a stranger and whatever happens to your living room carpet doesn't affect me in any sort of way.
Oh! I don't want to fight you, Jorah the Andal. What do I have to gain? If I win, I'm the shit who killed an old man. If I lose, I'm the shit who was killed by an old man.

~ Daario Naharis

Offline [ThunderStorm]

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2018, 02:14:16 am »
someone have 5 hours to write bs everyday, nice.
Keep going America!!

Offline Carg

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2018, 09:51:34 am »
@Mia, then half of the mod features should be removed because it gives them strategic advantage ingame, and some can't be trusted.

As for bringing personal interest bullshit, it looks like you're the one expressing his personal interest and complexes over the forums. You can't blame us (admins) for thinking differently and giving you facts which I did, but I guess that you just can't respect other's opinions. I just don't know whats wrong with you and where that anger comes from.

Offline LuCa

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2018, 11:06:38 am »
As far as i know it is illegal for everybody to read pm including admins only the server owner can have acces to that sensible data but thats based only in my country i dont know where the server is hosted from

Offline [ThunderStorm]

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2018, 06:38:08 pm »
I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.

RAGE!
RAGE DEMON!!
*Hides in a cave*

One tip, going vs admins is bad idea.
I'm not asslicking, but they are some tough son of a bit*ches, they can rage ban u, in 0.5.1.3.1 sec.
And you can't do anything.

Don't warn me u nabs, i'm just honest..
actually, warn me, idgaf, i'm not pussy.

Offline Nikola

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2018, 11:56:39 pm »
Quote
I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.
In extreme cases, scamming and begging can have elements of serial spamming of players' PMs and the main chat, which is what happened with those players (I wasn't a part of the admin team then, but I support the staff's actions). Behavior like this doesn't need to be a punishable offense by itself, but it may still have wider implications. For example, asking if there are admins online in the main chat or in PMs is obviously a perfectly legal thing to do. However, it may imply that that particular player could try to hack/cheat or generally break the rules.

As for the supposed in-game advantage this may give admins - I believe it is being exaggerated. Firstly, players discuss their movements/playing strategies in team-chat (or even using clients, such as TeamSpeak or Discord) much more often than in PMs. Secondly, even if players suddenly decided to use PMs for discussing their gaming strategies, the only real advantage an admin could acquire would be if that admin participated in massive chases and clashes with another group of players. Those chases/clashes are usually a result of clan wars in PTP - something responsible and diligent admins have absolutely no time for or interest in.

Quote
Exactly. But that's up to you, as you are the owner of the cat and you are the one who suffers the consequences of its behavior. It's not up to me, that I'm a stranger and whatever happens to your living room carpet doesn't affect me in any sort of way.
The thing is, is that you don't necessarily need to remove the cat since I'm responsible for it and I have the power to remove it. However, if you're responsible for the well-being of the people in the neighborhood and you're aware that this cat has urinated in my house, you can prevent the cat from doing it (or even worse things) in other people's houses. Yes, I may have to sacrifice a part of my privacy, but it's for the well-being of the whole neighborhood.

TL;DR, to sum up (since my fingers are getting tired from replying here :D): My impression is that the most common reason for the players to support the restrictions is that they feel that admins have particular devious benefits or even pleasure from reading their PMs. I fully understand that since there have been cases of misuse of the information gathered in PMs in the past. However, none of the current admins have a history of such behavior. Furthermore, this server is very open to suggestions/complaints. Hell, you can even insult the whole staff and ask them to participate in collective coprophagia while you're at it and your opinion will still be heard and considered. That goes double for the players' privacy. As i have mentioned, leaking private information is not something that is forgiven here.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 12:19:22 am by Nikola »

Offline YoMama

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2018, 01:42:07 pm »
If PM is made private, then it shouldn't be a level 2 and up change. VIPs aren't more trustworthy just because they paid for advantages over other players (nor are the VIPs who donated in the spirit of helping the server).

After all, the only thing access to PM is actually required is to catch players covering up ban evaders, which has only happened once in server history.
"Only happened once in server history" is a pretty bold statement. I am a complete privacy nut (for an American- I think I would be more normal in Europe), but I can see the utility in admins being able to read PMs. I have "made friends" with hackers to get them banned by the anticheat when admins were not available, then brought attention to the PMs they'd send me when an admin was in game to get them more permanently removed. If PMs were totally private, it would be only my word against a hacker.

Anything that says "private" should truly be private. I think at least "private message" should be reworded as "personal message" to reflect that. I'm not sure how I feel about making them actually private, though. What are you guys sending to each other that is so sensitive?

Offline Jonne

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Re: Communications privacy
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2018, 08:56:18 pm »
We won't be taking away the ability to read PMs from admins right now. We have very strict policies around this, so admins can absolutely not leak or talk about PMs with non admins. So, if you see this happening, or have a suspicion someone is using your PMs, please let us know as soon as possible. I think PMs are still very useful to catch ban evaders, as in some extreme cases, the only way we were able to find a ban evader was because of PMs. This does happen more frequently than you think, especially with environments where people are hard to keep apart (internet cafes etc). We will however make it more clear that admins are able to read PMs, and as YoMama suggested, we shouldn't refer to them as 'private messages'.