Plan B
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WuZi on September 24, 2016, 08:42:14 pm
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Hello everyone,
recently while playing, a couple of things came up which were really annoying for me.
First before I come to my point: We all have hard works and in our freetime we come here ingame to spend time, to enjoy the game with friends and families.. I know that this is the internet, I am aware of all kind of humours out there and I am also a guy that likes to joke about alot of things..
..but when it comes to blasphemy, -to attacking certain religious societies and people beyond the actuall game in the ingame-chat, it is not funny anymore. Insulting other Ideological associations and racism should be prohibited. Our ingame rules point out only the N-word which is apparently not clear enough for some people. We all come in diffrent colours and diffrent shapes, we need to live with that peacefully - even ingame in the main chat.
I am demand an update of the ingame rules in that area. I think we are mature enough for this step.
-WuZi
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+1
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Freedom of speech shall prevail. After all, there's no clear limit about what's acceptable and funny and what's offensive, so at the end of the day it would depend on one admin's subjective perception. When someone insults another person for their beliefs or skin color they're making a fool of themselves, that's more than enough punishment.
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Hello everyone,
recently while playing, a couple of things came up which were really annoying for me.
First before I come to my point: We all have hard works and in our freetime we come here ingame to spend time, to enjoy the game with friends and families.. I know that this is the internet, I am aware of all kind of humours out there and I am also a guy that likes to joke about alot of things..
..but when it comes to blasphemy, -to attacking certain religious societies and people beyond the actuall game in the ingame-chat, it is not funny anymore. Insulting other Ideological associations and racism should be prohibited. Our ingame rules point out only the N-word which is apparently not clear enough for some people. We all come in diffrent colours and diffrent shapes, we need to live with that peacefully - even ingame in the main chat.
I am demand an update of the ingame rules in that area. I think we are mature enough for this step.
-WuZi
This rule should be added long time a go.
+1
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here i agree with Mia) no need make too much sense around it ;)
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Nope. I, for one, also don't like that the "n-word" is being censored, because that's just double standards (when black guys call each other "n-word" it's ok, but when white people do it all hell breaks loose). Adding more rules that would limit the freedom of speech, as Mia said, would be really bad.
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I completely agree with Wuzi and what he said is completely right and true.
As for me, I don't take jokes seriously neither in-game nor in real live. But when it comes towards my religion, that pisses off.
Even jokes has certain limits. Crossing it won't be good and punishable if the ideas is accepted. I myself am I a guy of humour and fun thoughts. But i don't attack other's religion or race, caste etc.
Therefore, I agree with Wuzi.
+1
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but why its bad? attack some religions feel, if you have strong heart and faith, you no need some rules what give some protection)
P.S. You just can cut head this guy and be happy :D
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Nope. I, for one, also don't like that the "n-word" is being censored, because that's just double standards (when black guys call each other "n-word" it's ok, but when white people do it all hell breaks loose). Adding more rules that would limit the freedom of speech, as Mia said, would be really bad.
This is almost same subject that other player had suggest and will say the same .
"Our main problem is really the society that each year pass more "sensitive " they get . soon will get new topic about only +18 players "
Btw u have /ignore command this days
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but why its bad? attack some religions feel, if you have strong heart and faith, you no need some rules what give some protection)
P.S. You just can cut head this guy and be happy :D
Stop being so cool with it, there are people who dislike it.
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There was a similar topic a few days earlier and it was pretty clear what the community-at-large's opinions were.I don't see any point in making new rules and that too just because someone said something about your religion of all things.Don't we have enough people fighting over that in the real world?Just ignore the ones who try to incite and this won't even be a problem most of the time.
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We just want to keep out racisim and religion out from the game, it has nothing to do with being sensitive or extrem. It is in my opinion just not the place for it. And this is not "freedom of speech", it is just looking for trouble and in realife depending on your country -punishable. A mature community shouldn't allow that. When someone joins with the name 'Hindu_Hater' or 'Muslim_Hater' and starts talking trash (this really happened), he is obviously not only wanting to play game. There should be rules to use proper nicknames, because this you can't ignore..
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+1 Agree
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If you are mature and open minded, you can just simply "ignore" them in your mind. You cannot prevent these "toxic" people. They are everywhere, wherever you go, whatever you do. It's inevitable, there are always people like this. The best way to avoid them is just ignore them.
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If you are mature and open minded, you can just simply "ignore" them in your mind. You cannot prevent these "toxic" people. They are everywhere, wherever you go, whatever you do. It's inevitable, there are always people like this. The best way to avoid them is just ignore them.
If rules are set up they won't be able to continue their shits here.
We just want to keep out racisim and religion out from the game, it has nothing to do with being sensitive or extrem. It is in my opinion just not the place for it. And this is not "freedom of speech", it is just looking for trouble and in realife depending on your country -punishable. A mature community shouldn't allow that. When someone joins with the name 'Hindu_Hater' or 'Muslim_Hater' and starts talking trash (this really happened), he is obviously not only wanting to play game. There should be rules to use proper nicknames, because this you can't ignore..
+1
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All ur problems can be solve using /ignore command
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You guys... Let me ask you this one question: how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any religion, but I've never seen any Christian, or Buddhist, being offended. It's just that you are taking everything so seriously lmao...
The best way to get someone to stop insulting you and flaming you is to ignore them completely. Just don't pay any attention to them. And just like that they will get bored and will move on to the next person.
So, once again, this is the internet. It is internet's ugly side, but you can't do anything about it. Stop being so sensitive, play your game and ignore the bastards who want to provoke you. Simple.
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You guys... Let me ask you this one question: how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any religion, but I've never seen any Christian, or Buddhist, being offended. It's just that you are taking everything so seriously lmao...
The best way to get someone to stop insulting you and flaming you is to ignore them completely. Just don't pay any attention to them. And just like that they will get bored and will move on to the next person.
So, once again, this is the internet. It is internet's ugly side, but you can't do anything about it. Stop being so sensitive, play your game and ignore the bastards who want to provoke you. Simple.
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You guys... Let me ask you this one question: how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any religion, but I've never seen any Christian, or Buddhist, being offended. It's just that you are taking everything so seriously lmao...
The best way to get someone to stop insulting you and flaming you is to ignore them completely. Just don't pay any attention to them. And just like that they will get bored and will move on to the next person.
So, once again, this is the internet. It is internet's ugly side, but you can't do anything about it. Stop being so sensitive, play your game and ignore the bastards who want to provoke you. Simple.
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You guys... Let me ask you this one question: how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any religion, but I've never seen any Christian, or Buddhist, being offended. It's just that you are taking everything so seriously lmao...
The best way to get someone to stop insulting you and flaming you is to ignore them completely. Just don't pay any attention to them. And just like that they will get bored and will move on to the next person.
So, once again, this is the internet. It is internet's ugly side, but you can't do anything about it. Stop being so sensitive, play your game and ignore the bastards who want to provoke you. Simple.
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how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam?
In this topic I was referring to all religious societies, because religion is indeed a serious topic and muslims take their religion seriously. The religious concept makes the diffrent :)
Afterall your reply convinced me, I think ignoring is really the best way. It was important for me to speak about this. Thanks.
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I could care less if people insult my faith. I understand people have different backgrounds and beliefs hence that's why it's best not pick an argument.
But it is not my problem, that people learn how to treat other religions, disrespectfully, like this in their society or learn this from the internet.
how come whenever someone complains about being religiously offended it is always about Islam?
In this topic I was referring to all religious societies, because religion is indeed a serious topic and muslims take their religion seriously. The religious concept makes the diffrent :)
Afterall your reply convinced me, I think ignoring is really the best way. It was important for me to speak about this. Thanks.
Every religious person in any religion takes their religion seriously lol. I can tell you that with experience from my family's side.
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+1
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Spec's comment was convincing.
People need to grow up a bit and leave their childhood forever.
@Spoc
All the religions get offended maybe you didn't see but I witnessed it:
But we muslims take our religion in a serious manner.
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Insulting someone because of their beliefs or race is flaming, and the people that do it are morons. When was the last time you took a moron's opinion seriously? They aren't worth paying attention to.
However, a rule against "blasphemy" is ridiculous. I am completely irreligious. My very existence in some religions is "blasphemy". If someone thinks that I lack morals because I don't derive them from god, I'm not going to stop them from telling me. It doesn't hurt me. I'll probably try to change their mind about it. Similarly, if I, a heliocentrist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism#Religious_attitudes_to_Heliocentrism), also blaspheme that the (now) saint, "Mother" Theresa was an evil thanatophile with good PR skills, it doesn't hurt you. If you think otherwise, try changing my mind instead of silencing me. We are distinguished from other animals in that we possess the ability to communicate at (relatively) high levels. Arguing and disagreeing about shit, or perhaps changing our minds, is what makes us human. Don't take that away.
If you're so insecure in your beliefs that you can't attempt to correct another person's bad impressions of what you believe, then that is your problem. If someone else is so insecure in their beliefs that they try to ridicule yours, then that is their problem. There isn't any need to silence anyone.
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Arguing and disagreeing about shit, or perhaps changing our minds, is what makes us human. Don't take that away.
If you're so insecure in your beliefs that you can't attempt to correct another person's bad impressions of what you believe, then that is your problem.
The thing is just that PTP or this forum in my opinion is not the right place for discussing these subjects.
Otherwise you are right, humans by nature have different opinons, even in religion. We in humanity actually should follow as a whole what is right and turn away from falsehood. But this doesn't seem to work, because we are not robots. And this however is actually good because everyone wants to have their own opinion.
Insulting someone because of their beliefs or race is flaming, and the people that do it are morons. When was the last time you took a moron's opinion seriously? They aren't worth paying attention to.
As in my post before, after re-thinking about the internet, I came to the outcome (as many of you said) that ignoring morons is really the best idea.
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lmao what a joke thread, even more funny when it says "demand"
"Someone said something that i dont like so punish him"
The thing is just that PTP or this forum in my opinion is not the right place for discussing these subjects.
Source needed on that my friend
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You guys talk too much, less talk. More /ignore [ID]. Stop demanding/complaining
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The thing is just that PTP or this forum in my opinion is not the right place for discussing these subjects.
I agree that it's usually distasteful, but I don't think it should be against the rules. I've had some pretty interesting conversations with people about religion, politics, etc. in the server.
Otherwise you are right, humans by nature have different opinons, even in religion. We in humanity actually should follow as a whole what is right and turn away from falsehood. But this doesn't seem to work, because we are not robots. And this however is actually good because everyone wants to have their own opinion.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
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(http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2015/UfM3ag.gif)
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Hicham
NARUTO!! SASKE!!
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This rule should be added long time a go.
+1
(http://imgur.com/JsMNyPl)
Sorry for bad picture it was by phone
http://imgur.com/JsMNyPl
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This rule should be added long time a go.
+1
It won't be added, though
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Tbh, I never agreed with the n-word policy.
• No "N-Word"
- Regardless of your own race and intentions you have
This is stupid.
There are no rules globally saying racism is against the rules, just a single rule saying that specific word can't be used, no matter what you mean with it. Reference: HERE
(http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=136.0)
In short, I can come in chat and say (using Sanjay, a jamaican player, as an example): HEY SANJAY, YOU DIRTY BLACK FUCKER. And nothing can be done against me, you know why, because I simply didn't use the N-word.
There's not a single rule against racism, or offenses in general, so I am free to hate on black people as long as I don't use the N-word.
Now again, the N-word can be used friendly, for example: Hey Spectre, my n-word.
But I'll probably be muted, because even though my intention was "good", I used it, and therefore I deserve punishment.
Do you understand whats going on? You are banning a word because it has only ONE possible bad use.
Why don't we apply this rule to the other words and fucking ban the entire goddamn dictionary, shall we?
See where I am going at?
We don't have rules against religion intolerence, we have people saying such a thing should never be considered, as people are supposed to not take it seriously, so why should we take a fucking word seriously?
This is a dumb rule.
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Agreed, man. But I guess some people are way overly sensitive or don't have a sense of humor if they can't detect when the n-word is being used as an insult, and when as a joke.
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Well I've been suggested to change that rule like this 20 days ago. But been very busy I think, it will be changed soon, hopefully.
A suggestion to add rules or add it as a title and add "No N word" rule under the this rule:
• No racism in any shape.
- No "N-Word" Regardless of your own race and intentions you have
- Racist words that targeting nationalities, specific country or people of that country in same race
I wanted to suggest this because of that report (http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=203.msg1149#msg1149) and I had no change to force that player to see /rules. Because nothing in the /rules about racism except "no N word" rule.
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Well I've been suggested to change that rule like this 20 days ago. But been very busy I think, it will be changed soon, hopefully.
A suggestion to add rules or add it as a title and add "No N word" rule under the this rule:
• No racism in any shape.
- No "N-Word" Regardless of your own race and intentions you have
- Racist words that targeting nationalities, specific country or people of that country in same race
I wanted to suggest this because of that report (http://jonne.be/forum/index.php?topic=203.msg1149#msg1149) and I had no change to force that player to see /rules. Because nothing in the /rules about racism except "no N word" rule.
That'd be a good start.
However, upholding that "no n-word" rule is stupid.
It's just a word. It can be used as a friendly greeting, or it can be used as a racist remark.
I don't see "fag" getting banned because it can be used to offend homosexuals (same applies to "gay")
I also don't see "pussy" getting banned because it's used to say men are not masculine enough, disrespecting women in the process. (Feminist speech lel)
w/e
There are tons of words that you can ban because it hurts someone. But we don't, I wonder why?
I won't take this "people are sensitive" bullshit excuse.
Muslims are sensitive to religious jokes. If I go out there in the chat and say "ALLAH THE DOG", I'll get angry messages up the ass.
But according to people in this same thread, that doesn't matter.
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I think it's clear that the majority of the server thinks this is not a good idea, so there won't be any such rules added.
Now, in my personal opinion, I also think it's bad to add such rules, because it would create a huge grey area. One person might take something as offensive while another person doesn't, or something might be meant as a joke but the another person doesn't take it like that, etc. So admins would have to decide based on their own personal opinion and there wouldn't be a clear line on what's allowed and what's not allowed. That's what I want to avoid. That's also why I added /ignore, so you can filter your own chat. If you don't want to see the chat of a certain person, just /ignore him.
About the 'N-word', we just kept the rules of the rules of the old PTP, and that rule is a very simple and easy to follow rule, so we just kept it in. I don't have any problems allowing the 'N-word', if the majority of the community is okay with that. So if you want to change that rule, make a topic in the suggestions board (and maybe add a vote option). I don't know where the rule originated from, or why it was put in, but in my personal opinion, I don't see any reason to keep it forbidden. After all, the game is rated M / PEGI 18 (From the PEGI website: "It contains: Extreme violence - Violence towards defenceless people - Sexual violence - Strong language") and even the peds (skins) ingame use the 'N-word'. But let's make that a separate discussion.
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I think it's clear that the majority of the server thinks this is not a good idea, so there won't be any such rules added.
Now, in my personal opinion, I also think it's bad to add such rules, because it would create a huge grey area. One person might take something as offensive while another person doesn't, or something might be meant as a joke but the another person doesn't take it like that, etc. So admins would have to decide based on their own personal opinion and there wouldn't be a clear line on what's allowed and what's not allowed. That's what I want to avoid. That's also why I added /ignore, so you can filter your own chat. If you don't want to see the chat of a certain person, just /ignore him.
About the 'N-word', we just kept the rules of the rules of the old PTP, and that rule is a very simple and easy to follow rule, so we just kept it in. I don't have any problems allowing the 'N-word', if the majority of the community is okay with that. So if you want to change that rule, make a topic in the suggestions board (and maybe add a vote option). I don't know where the rule originated from, or why it was put in, but in my personal opinion, I don't see any reason to keep it forbidden. After all, the game is rated M / PEGI 18 (From the PEGI website: "It contains: Extreme violence - Violence towards defenceless people - Sexual violence - Strong language") and even the peds (skins) ingame use the 'N-word'. But let's make that a separate discussion.
Same opinion, I don't mind removing the No N-word rule.
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I support this idea.
I'm not religious at all, science is my shit, but I come from a religious family and most of my dear friends in real life are believers as well. Maybe that's why I often get pissed off when I see despective comments towards someone involving his beliefs. Mostly because, sure, I don't believe in God, but religion does mean a lot to so many people, it has even saved people's lives. Wether you believe in a greater being or if you don't, you should at least respect other people that do.
When I was an admin here I used to let people argue about many sensitive topics such as politics, sports and stuff like that, but I always put and end to it when it started to involve religions. I do admit that personal motives drove me but it is the right thing to do.
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but it is the right thing to do.
citation needed
What if I told you... Nobody gives a shit when they're called n*gga. And if someone does, that person is clearly a pussy and should be erased from this planet.
2016, people. Just in case you haven't realized.
What if i told you... Nobody gives a shit when you insult his beliefs. And if someone does, that person is clearly a pussy and should be erased from this planet.
2016, people. Just in case you haven't realized.
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If your religion teaches you that other religions are bs, then your religion is not a religion but a cult.
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If your religion teaches you that other religions are bs, then your religion is not a religion but a cult.
Humanity is one, God is one (if you are a beliver) and religion should also be one. No religion on earth says others are BS. But the true religion is allowed to say that other religions are fake. But this does not mean that someone has to become a dick towards other religions. That's against the rules.
I think we can finish up this topic now..
-WuZi
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I respect everyone's beliefs and religion, but with all due respect this topic has no point to keep going.. We are here to enjoy a game and have a good time please stop this discussion as it will only add fuel to the fire :)
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but it is the right thing to do.
citation needed
What if I told you... Nobody gives a shit when they're called n*gga. And if someone does, that person is clearly a pussy and should be erased from this planet.
2016, people. Just in case you haven't realized.
What if i told you... Nobody gives a shit when you insult his beliefs. And if someone does, that person is clearly a pussy and should be erased from this planet.
2016, people. Just in case you haven't realized.
Lol, I missed ya.
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Humanity is one, God is one (if you are a beliver) and religion should also be one.
Sheee-it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEu1dFLwf3E), when I add mine up, one < three. I feel less-than after your comment.
Otherwise you are right, humans by nature have different opinons, even in religion. We in humanity actually should follow as a whole what is right and turn away from falsehood.
No religion on earth says others are BS. But the true religion is allowed to say that other religions are fake. But this does not mean that someone has to become a dick towards other religions. That's against the rules.
You're getting less subtle anyway, so I'll ask you to explain, without offending anyone, what "falsehood" might be and what the "true religion" is. It seems to me that both of those terms imply that certain ideologies are not valid. Remember:
Insulting other Ideological associations and racism should be prohibited.
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Sheee-it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEu1dFLwf3E)
Rofl'd at this ;D
Anyway, Wuzi (and others) don't take this personal, but this is getting a bit out of hand. Soon we will have a 120-page topic about why certain religions are fake and why other(s) are not...
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I think it is not the right place to speak about that topic too. I called for a rule to protect other ideological associations, meaning if anyone is different, there should not be mockery or insults in the chat, where the person feels offended. But after listening to some replies here, I got convienced and changed my way of looking at the internet.
Every human has (or should have) at the very least the dignity, the freedom of choice, which is to be protected and respected for a peaceful living together, because we humans are actually all the same.
It is possible, that sooner or later people will convert to other religions or change their world view, that's why we respect other people for as long we are alive, but we do not agree with their religion, since we have our own. And since we assume to have the true religion, we don't mind to argue.
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I wanted to see all of the discussion before putting my thoughts here, let me do that before the very end.
First, I think that freedom of speech must prevail. Most of the players need to release their feelings and energy in the game not only by fighting, but by trash-talking in chat, and you, WuZi, do it regularly too. I do not estimate it, I don't say it is bad (or good). It is just a fact. So why some topic should and others shouldn't be tolerated in terms of trash-talking? It sounds like double standards. Your words can offend someone as much as you can be offended by others' words. So either trash-talking must be prohibited or allowed completely. Since the first option has no sense, because excessive puritanism and restrictions never lead to anything good, we must choose the second one. And yeah, that's why I think 'no n-word' rule should be removed to, but it is the matter of the other topic.
Second, about the hurt feelings. Try to offend the feelings of a Buddhist monk. I am sure it is not possible even theoretically. One cannot offend you, but you are the only one who decides if you should take the offence personally. As many individuals correctly state above, the best way to deal with trash-talkers is to ignore them. If someone wants to offend you, you shouldn't allow him to do that. Instead, he doesn't deserve even a single moment of your attention. Yeah, unfortunately, this doesn't always work in real life, but in the Internet it does. Whatever it is, religion or something else, just ignore and don't mind! If your faith can be offended by some silly spammer, is it strong enough btw?
Third, there is the religion and there is the faith. The religion is one of the tools to control and rule any society. It can be applied to suppress people. The faith is the projection of religious main idea on your soul, on your inner being. You can have it even if you know that God doesn't exist just because the faith and the knowledge do not intersect at any point. In most cases the faith is productive and positive, and, as long it is something that belong only to your inner world, it cannot be touched or offended by anything from the outer world.
So, if someone says "God does not exist", it is just his personal opinion and you, being a smart person, shouldn't rage due to it. You can discuss it with him in friendly athmosphere though. But if someone says "You are shit because you are muslim", it means that he is just a crazy frog and he is not worth your attention. That's it.
There should be no rules that restrict the freedom of speech, but with only one exception. I am convinced that trash-talking cannot be acceptable from an admin, from the person who is picked to administrate the community. They say "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi", but I prefer to rephrase that as "Quod licet bovi, non licet Iovi." If the person who is granted extended rights over influencing on your gaming experience, Administrator, acts as random spammer and says "Get the fuck off here, you *set of chauvinist criteria* piece of shit", you'd ask yourself if you picked right place to spend your time on.
So, I would like to see what do you thing about this question: may Administrators aggressively trash-talk against the players? Does it fit to the Administator status? I wouldn't ever ask this question on Tenshi's server despite of his constant anti-chauvinist rhetorics, everything is clear there, but I am sure I can expect more from Jonne's.
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Everything there was to say about this topic has been said already. No rules will be added. I'm locking this now.
https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=3m16s