Plan B
General => Suggestions => Closed => Topic started by: YoMama on January 25, 2018, 07:16:44 am
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Why does it exist again?
It's certainly not to balance out VIPs and regulars, because VIPs can and do use it. Newbies don't know about it, so they get fucked by it.
The spray can is an annoying weapon that is not too annoying for PTP, but annoying enough that it should be a pickup instead of a short command.
Similarly, grenades are a little overpowered to be giving to people with just a simple command. We already have pickups.
Rifles should also be pickups, as has been suggested by Saurabh and others.
At the moment, /holiday eng seems to be mainly used by regular players who don't really need the help but want to overuse its weapons at their convenience. I'm fine with the weapons, but I think there should be more of a price for getting them than just a timer between uses.
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So a lvl 1spends 2mins+ taking pickups before he can face other people going 2+ places to take Armor,spray,rifle,grenade... ?
/holiday eng gives newbies a chance to fight the VIPs and it adds fun to the gamemode.
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So a lvl 1spends 2mins+ taking pickups before he can face other people going 2+ places to take Armor,spray,rifle,grenade... ?
/holiday eng gives newbies a chance to fight the VIPs and it adds fun to the gamemode.
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Newbies don't know /holiday eng, have no chance with a rifle against snipers, and VIPs can use all the other weapons against the newbies as well.
The solution is to make VIPs less overpowered, not to add a bunch of annoying weapons that VIPs can also use against the newbies. Nothing is going to solve the imbalance between VIPs and everyone else as long as VIPs have a perfectly accurate weapon that they can kill someone in 3 or less hits with before the attacker can even use whatever special weapons they have.
I think pickups would be more fun. Instead of a VIP getting to the tower in LS, typing /holiday eng and spraying everyone and doing /holiday eng again when they run out of spray, they'd actually have to go to a pickup and risk something to get the weapon.
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I think pickups would be more fun. Instead of a VIP getting to the tower in LS, typing /holiday eng and spraying everyone and doing /holiday eng again when they run out of spray, they'd actually have to go to a pickup and risk something to get the weapon.
VIPs would use the saw instead... Just sayin' :D
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Yeah very simple logic. This was made for holiday and command should be removed! +1
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-1 You know why -1
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Newbies just don't know about game mode too, remove the game mode too then?
Hmm
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-1
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Yeah I like the idea. But for President, Rifle should be set as a weapon for President Class.
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VIPs would use the saw instead... Just sayin' :D
True, but you can't use the saw on a bunch of people at once like you can the spray can.
You know why
No, I don't.
Newbies just don't know about game mode too, remove the game mode too then?
Hmm
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Again, not sure of the logic in your argument here.
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Okay, still not finding much reason not to remove /holiday eng, just that you don't like the idea.
Yeah I like the idea. But for President, Rifle should be set as a weapon for President Class.
Maybe- but that's another topic :)
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Remove /Holiday eng
Add /rifle cmd for lvl 0-1
ez
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-1
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Hell no.
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The only cmd people get to compete with sniper is this.
Rifle spawns are not Any better than holiday eng except for another refill.
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Hell no.
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The only cmd people get to compete with sniper is this.
Rifle spawns are not Any better than holiday eng except for another refill.
At first I was disagreeing with you. But now I see the point.
I would like this but only if there is a rifle spawn at EACH Spawn or and not like the grenade spawn where it consumes time due to the long distance. +1 in this case.
If not then it would only increase the burden on the Lvl1 in going at each rifle spawn. In this case -1
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-1
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/holiday eng is so useless and whoever says "it gives newbies a chance!!" is delusional. the rifle is trash. the spray can is incredibly situational. the grenades have pickups. the command is just a consolation for people who don't feel like giving money to a SAMP server.
+1
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Yes, it doesn't balance out anything but it helps. I'm a newbie and I always tell other newbies in my team to use the command.
VIPs use it too but they have far more overpowered weapons and the only chance I have against a sniper is a rifle even though it is not as good a sniper.
VIPs would use the saw instead... Just sayin' :D
True, but you can't use the saw on a bunch of people at once like you can the spray can.
yeah but spray cans have limited ammo and is mostly ineffective against a target - I'm not saying it's useless, it just doesn't help all the time. Also chainsaw kills faster.
VIPs use it? No problem!
Removing it definitely won't make anything better and leaving it the way it is won't make anything worse.
also we can just add /holiday eng as a pro tip to those random server messages
tldr: if the command is removed, regulars won't be able to use it for their advantage - this is good for the newbies, but they will lose the only chance they have against a sniper.
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How will they obtain the rifle then? They obtain grenades from the holiday also. I dont even know where would jonne place the rifle pickups (maybe they will be with the grenades on 1 place? I think the rifle is good in holiday I dont agree with this.
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Rifle is op sometimes and about spray? It's certainly not a regularly used tool.
Regarding grenades, it has pick ups.
I'm neutral about it
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If you really want to remove, then please add these spawns near base, that would be much is good and the problem would be solved and we can only take rifles after 3 mins just like /holiday eng.
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+1 for removing spray can.
-1 for removing /holiday eng
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First of all, it is a very good question - why do we have this cmd, what is purpose.
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+1 for removing /holiday eng, it's a lame way of getting grenades. It was created just for the holidays, but it's been kept past the holidays and I don't agree with that. Besides, the best way to retrieve grenades is at the nades spawn.
+1 The spray can should be removed too cause it's being abused by too many people.
As for rifle it should stay a VIP feature only, I don't agree with it being a command for everyone.
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+1 for removing /holiday eng, it's a lame way of getting grenades. It was created just for the holidays, but it's been kept past the holidays and I don't agree with that. Besides, the best way to retrieve grenades is at the nades spawn.
+1 The spray can should be removed too cause it's being abused by too many people.
As for rifle it should stay a VIP feature only, I don't agree with it being a command for everyone.
Then how will Lvl2- people will get rifles?
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+1 for removing /holiday eng, it's a lame way of getting grenades. It was created just for the holidays, but it's been kept past the holidays and I don't agree with that. Besides, the best way to retrieve grenades is at the nades spawn.
+1 The spray can should be removed too cause it's being abused by too many people.
As for rifle it should stay a VIP feature only, I don't agree with it being a command for everyone.
Then how will Lvl2- people will get rifles?
Psst, level 2 is aka VIP.
by the way, /holiday eng command has a huge role in the way we play the gm, having 11 nades and rifle are best combination a non vip can have(and even VIPs use this)
This helps a non VIP a lot, nade storm can easily kill 10 secs around president and can even clear the chaos at main armour spawn.
It's like we are too much used to it, and removal of it will change our gameplay for sure
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Then how will Lvl2- people will get rifles?
There is a rifle command for VIPs for years already? lol
by the way, /holiday eng command has a huge role in the way we play the gm, having 11 nades and rifle are best combination a non vip can have(and even VIPs use this)
This helps a non VIP a lot, nade storm can easily kill 10 secs around president and can even clear the chaos at main armour spawn.
It's like we are too much used to it, and removal of it will change our gameplay for sure
Too much power and having that stuff from the start of spawning on the server is a unfair advantage for many players. It's best for the player to take the journey to the nade spawn and stack up.
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...yeah but spray cans have limited ammo and is mostly ineffective against a target - I'm not saying it's useless, it just doesn't help all the time. Also chainsaw kills faster.
VIPs use it? No problem!
Removing it definitely won't make anything better and leaving it the way it is won't make anything worse.
also we can just add /holiday eng as a pro tip to those random server messages
tldr: if the command is removed, regulars won't be able to use it for their advantage - this is good for the newbies, but they will lose the only chance they have against a sniper.
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I'm not saying I want to remove the weapons. I'm saying I want to remove the command that magically gives them to you. Spray cans are far from ineffective- they disable you for a fairly long period, and they can be easily used on multiple people at once. The chainsaw you can at least escape, and you can't really use it on two people at once unless luck is involved. I don't like how someone can do /holiday eng when they are in a spot where they would otherwise die, then they spray everyone until they either escape or get help. I'm OK with a pickup, because it means that they have to actually strategize.
I think removing it will make things more interesting because people will actually have to go to pickups to get weird weapons. Rifles are not even close to a chance against a sniper. I think the sniper should be weakened, or maybe *gasp* turned into a pickup for VIPs only along with the chainsaw instead of giving everyone annoying weapons for a reason that simply isn't valid.
As for rifle it should stay a VIP feature only, I don't agree with it being a command for everyone.
It's an overall shitty weapon. Why would you keep it to VIPs? I just don't like people magically being able to get it when they need a weapon to pop tires from a driveby position.
by the way, /holiday eng command has a huge role in the way we play the gm, having 11 nades and rifle are best combination a non vip can have(and even VIPs use this)
This helps a non VIP a lot, nade storm can easily kill 10 secs around president and can even clear the chaos at main armour spawn.
It's like we are too much used to it, and removal of it will change our gameplay for sure
I agree with you that it has a huge role. However, I don't think it's a good one, which is why I'm suggesting that the weapons be pickups instead. I'm really not sure I agree with you on the "best combination", but you'd still be able to get it with pickups. Grenades don't "clear chaos at main armour spawn", they add to the bullshit that goes on there.
One of the worst effects /holiday eng has, in my opinion, is empowering the civilian class. I think it pushes people away from being terrorists or cops and consequentially makes people less likely to play the gamemode.
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Then how will Lvl2- people will get rifles?
There is a rifle command for VIPs for years already? lol
When I said Lvl2- I meant Level 2 minus lol, people below Lvl2. How will they get rifles? There would be even heavier unbalance than before if your suggestion is used.
Too much power and having that stuff from the start of spawning on the server is a unfair advantage for many players. It's best for the player to take the journey to the nade spawn and stack up.
How tf is it too much. One gets his weapon wheel messed up for weapon switch gameplay,gets only 500 ammo,can't be used again for 3 minutes,with only 3 nades which can be only be useful if properly thrown and that too doesn't work 100%.
I think removing it will make things more interesting because people will actually have to go to pickups to get weird weapons. Rifles are not even close to a chance against a sniper. I think the sniper should be weakened, or maybe *gasp* turned into a pickup for VIPs only along with the chainsaw instead of giving everyone annoying weapons for a reason that simply isn't valid.
Lol you think this will have any chance of happening?
One of the worst effects /holiday eng has, in my opinion, is empowering the civilian class. I think it pushes people away from being terrorists or cops and consequentially makes people less likely to play the gamemode.
*Inb4 CapricousRobber nuts
This I agree to but the problem is that slot system isn't 100% perfect. Usually one of the first times a player gets into civilian class is that the slots are all full or the game is heavily unbalanced and he cannot balance it somewhat from joining the weaker side, hence he is forced to take the civilian class,write in CAPS in main chat about protecting,get killed even while protecting by the protecting class,and then just get fed up to the point he just starts killing everyone .
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Remove /Holiday eng
Add /rifle cmd for lvl 0-1
ez
n as like /holiday eng, ppl can use the cmd again after 3 mins.
Ez 2!
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Remove /Holiday eng
Add /rifle cmd for lvl 0-1
ez
n as like /holiday eng, ppl can use the cmd again after 3 mins.
Ez 2!
Or, just make it a pickup. Ez 3!
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So let's get this straight:
The Suggestion is basically
Remove /holiday eng and replace it with another alternative like pickups?
I assume this should apply the same to VIPs too?
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So let's get this straight:
The Suggestion is basically
Remove /holiday eng and replace it with another alternative like pickups?
I assume this should apply the same to VIPs too?
No. Just no.
Having those special weapons by spawn or being able to get them with commands have always been a feature for VIPs in return of their donation. /holiday command was supposed to exist only for a limited time but somehow it was never removed. So yeah, the command should be actually removed. I'm fine with everyone having those weapons though, so it can be replaced by pickups.
In another way which you want to hear the most, we, the VIPs are fucking losers and we had to pay for a stupid game to be overpowered so the ability of having weapons whenever we want should remain ours :D
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I never said nor meant any attack on VIP in that post. I wasn't clear where this suggestion is going towards.
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Besides all what the VIP Info says this:
Extra weapons
Chainsaw: /saw
Sniper rifle: /sniper
Katana: /kata
Rifle: /rifle
They still remain Extra features regardless of the existence of /holiday eng
I have no idea where this topic is going towards.
It wants to remove /holiday eng in the name of spawnable weapons but isn't clear on the subject on VIPs.
That's why I asked that
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I never said nor meant any attack on VIP in that post. I wasn't clear where this suggestion is going towards.
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Besides all what the VIP Info says this:
Extra weapons
Chainsaw: /saw
Sniper rifle: /sniper
Katana: /kata
Rifle: /rifle
They still remain Extra features regardless of the existence of /holiday eng
I have no idea where this topic is going towards.
It wants to remove /holiday eng in the name of spawnable weapons but isn't clear on the subject on VIPs.
That's why I asked that
This topic isn't about messing with VIP features, though I'd like to do so. It's about /holiday eng.
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/Holiday helps us level 1s compete a bit with the level 2's , and i cant count all the times it has helped me escape death so i wouldnt wanna see this cmnd gone
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This topic isn't about messing with VIP features, though I'd like to do so. It's about /holiday eng.
You also do realize if we edit the /holiday eng, then questions against VIP features will be raised.
/holiday eng has been used as a feature to somewhat counter the VIP weapons.
It's pretty obvious. Gamemode would be even further unbalanced if the wrong decision is taken.
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I think the best solution is to have a /rifle command for everyone and remove /holiday eng. Lvl 1s can have their chance against VIPs and it won't give anyone any advantage. The /rifle command for VIPs is pretty useless anyways.
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/Holiday helps us level 1s compete a bit with the level 2's , and i cant count all the times it has helped me escape death so i wouldnt wanna see this cmnd gone
You're missing the point. It's fine that you feel that the weapons helped you against VIPs, even though I don't see how that can happen if VIPs have access to the same weapons. I'm not proposing removing them entirely. I'm just proposing making them strategic choices rather than opportunistic ones.
You also do realize if we edit the /holiday eng, then questions against VIP features will be raised.
/holiday eng has been used as a feature to somewhat counter the VIP weapons.
It's pretty obvious. Gamemode would be even further unbalanced if the wrong decision is taken.
Yes, I do. Am I complaining? I just don't want this topic dominated by VIP bullshit.
I still fail to see how /holiday eng counters VIP weapons if VIPs can also use it. It's like saying that Hydras counter VIPs when VIPs are also able to use them.
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/Holiday helps us level 1s compete a bit with the level 2's , and i cant count all the times it has helped me escape death so i wouldnt wanna see this cmnd gone
You're missing the point. It's fine that you feel that the weapons helped you against VIPs, even though I don't see how that can happen if VIPs have access to the same weapons. I'm not proposing removing them entirely. I'm just proposing making them strategic choices rather than opportunistic ones.
You also do realize if we edit the /holiday eng, then questions against VIP features will be raised.
/holiday eng has been used as a feature to somewhat counter the VIP weapons.
It's pretty obvious. Gamemode would be even further unbalanced if the wrong decision is taken.
Yes, I do. Am I complaining? I just don't want this topic dominated by VIP bullshit.
I still fail to see how /holiday eng counters VIP weapons if VIPs can also use it. It's like saying that Hydras counter VIPs when VIPs are also able to use them.
What about having the cmnd cancelled for level 2's then?
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What about having the cmnd cancelled for level 2's then?
/holiday eng isn't a VIP vs. non-VIP issue and it shouldn't be. Yes, that would make the command something that VIPs can't have, but it still is no counter against the overpowered Sniper. It's a pitiful excuse for balance if you try to think of it that way.
This also doesn't address my main issue with the command, which is that its weapons are used in an opportunistic rather than strategic fashion because they can be magically spawned from nowhere right when you need them. It's not fun to think you're safe because no one expected you to camp somewhere, only to have a bunch of people magically spawn nades and kill you with them. The only reason they're succeeding is because of the command, not because they made a strategic decision to get nades and as a result, had them when you thought you were safe.
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What about having the cmnd cancelled for level 2's then?
/holiday eng isn't a VIP vs. non-VIP issue and it shouldn't be. Yes, that would make the command something that VIPs can't have, but it still is no counter against the overpowered Sniper. It's a pitiful excuse for balance if you try to think of it that way.
This also doesn't address my main issue with the command, which is that its weapons are used in an opportunistic rather than strategic fashion because they can be magically spawned from nowhere right when you need them. It's not fun to think you're safe because no one expected you to camp somewhere, only to have a bunch of people magically spawn nades and kill you with them. The only reason they're succeeding is because of the command, not because they made a strategic decision to get nades and as a result, had them when you thought you were safe.
Remove grenades then from holiday cmnd
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-1 , and you know what , this cmd does make the non vip classes more balanced , why ? what's a good counter to saw ? oh i dont know ? spray can ? oh yeah !
As much as i hate spray , it should stay, so we give non vip players a chance to counter our saw :)
end of discussion
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Nope -1.Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
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Remove grenades then from holiday cmnd
It's a start, but the same problem exists with the spray can. If I know I'm going to be fucked in SF and want to buy myself time, all I have to do is take the teleport to the top of the pointy building, do /holiday eng and start spraying. Was strategy involved? Not really. Just like the grenade example, I'm magically spawning a weapon when it's very useful- this doesn't really fit in with the gamemode, in my opinion.
-1 , and you know what , this cmd does make the non vip classes more balanced , why ? what's a good counter to saw ? oh i dont know ? spray can ? oh yeah !
As much as i hate spray , it should stay, so we give non vip players a chance to counter our saw :)
end of discussion
I agree that it "counters" a saw, mainly because it's easier to compensate for lag and multiple people can be sprayed at once. Since it disables you for an annoyingly long period of time, it means the saw can't be used. I think it's a better weapon in a lot of situations for this reason. However, you still haven't explained how it counters another VIP with a spray can. You also haven't addressed the fact that VIPs seem to use /holiday eng at a much higher rate than non-vips, since they actually know about the command.
Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
I'm not proposing removing it- why can't it be a pickup? What about having pickups near the spawns, for easy accessibility?
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Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
I'm not proposing removing it- why can't it be a pickup? What about having pickups near the spawns, for easy accessibility?
Why can't it be a command?
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Why you want to remove every feature of the game?
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Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
I'm not proposing removing it- why can't it be a pickup? What about having pickups near the spawns, for easy accessibility?
Why can't it be a command?
At least at a basic level, it doesn't make much sense to have a command that a minority of the server knows about that gives you useful weapons for free. Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out. I am more OK with the rifle being a command though, since it isn't really a big thing to be giving out. What about both /rifle and pickup, but a health penalty if you use the command (like /para)?
Why you want to remove every feature of the game?
Why do you want to ask misleading questions? I think it's pretty obvious that I don't want to "remove every feature of the game"- what was the point of writing that? How about a different question, which never got asked, because it appeared out of nowhere- why was /holiday eng added?
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in return of their donation
Do not even want to hear if you know what "donation" means.
In another way which you want to hear the most, we, the VIPs are fucking losers and we had to pay for a stupid game to be overpowered so the ability of having weapons whenever we want should remain ours :D
What we really want to hear is: why administration not doing a shit with this "problem" since many of them, from bottom to top, admitting it as, at least, "questionable" thing.
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Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
I'm not proposing removing it- why can't it be a pickup? What about having pickups near the spawns, for easy accessibility?
Why can't it be a command?
At least at a basic level, it doesn't make much sense to have a command that a minority of the server knows about that gives you useful weapons for free. Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out. I am more OK with the rifle being a command though, since it isn't really a big thing to be giving out. What about both /rifle and pickup, but a health penalty if you use the command (like /para)?
I don't get the point of making it a pickup and making it close to spawn, it's just waste of time trying to pick it up again and again after every spawn specially for a class like security.
Why should they have penalty on using it as command? If you want to have them penalty I'd like a penalty on /kata or /sniper as well since it *MAGICALLY* spawns as per your logic.
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Rifle is very useful for non vip players.
I'm not proposing removing it- why can't it be a pickup? What about having pickups near the spawns, for easy accessibility?
Why can't it be a command?
At least at a basic level, it doesn't make much sense to have a command that a minority of the server knows about that gives you useful weapons for free. Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out. I am more OK with the rifle being a command though, since it isn't really a big thing to be giving out. What about both /rifle and pickup, but a health penalty if you use the command (like /para)?
the /holiday eng command is not something that only a minority know about.I think there is a blue text message that comes in in-game chat every few minutes that mentions the command and if anyone who doesn't know about the command asks "how to get rifle/nades" then the others players always help them by telling them about the command.Pickups are definitely not easier to figure out otherwise a majority of players would know about the several grenade spawns in every map.As for applying a penalty on the use of the command,it wouldn't be fair or balanced unless similar penalties are implemented on the /sniper as well.
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At least at a basic level, it doesn't make much sense to have a command that a minority of the server knows about that gives you useful weapons for free. Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out. I am more OK with the rifle being a command though, since it isn't really a big thing to be giving out. What about both /rifle and pickup, but a health penalty if you use the command (like /para)?
+1
But no health penalty that'd be stupid,why would one sacrifice health which is a crucial thing in long range battles. Keep the 3 minute timer /holiday eng and pickups at spawn.
Imo collecting pickups at spawn is easier and more convenient than typing at the heat of the situation.
Besides spawning things give the advantage of weapon scrolling prior to having the weapon against the one who already has it.
Adjusting /holiday eng timer and what not would be too much of a mess as compared to simply adding pickups at spawn and other common places.
and one thing.
Just rename /Holiday eng to something cool sounding in PlanB Secret Agent Shiz Terms.
Like /toolkit or /wpack
Although,I am not advertising nor promoting them purposefully. The MTA PTP server from FFS gaming has a far more unbalanced system based on Class lvl you gain through XP and Points.
Civilian Class 2's have fucking rocket launchers as compared to Lvl 1's Shotgun and Deagle but the complains against the weapons is far less than our gamemode because they have provided pickups at spawn,involving different weapons that one could take.
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I don't get the point of making it a pickup and making it close to spawn, it's just waste of time trying to pick it up again and again after every spawn specially for a class like security.
That is the point- that you have to evaluate whether or not it's worth it to get a rifle, grenade, etc. instead of just using a command when you know it is. It's like having to decide whether it's worth it to get a particular vehicle. If someone's wasting their time getting the pickup over and over when they don't need it, then they have bad strategy.
A lot of people seem to think you need to go to the armor pickup as a terrorist to have a chance at killing the President. They end up cruising around with most of their armor and all of their health, then when they finally die, they're often so outnumbered that the armor wouldn't have really helped them anyway. I don't bother with armor unless I think I'll need it. I make the strategic decision to save myself time and effort and just go directly to the President. I think it makes more sense to have to make these decisions and it is fairer and more interesting this way. It used to be that you had to make a strategic decision to get grenades and the spray can, now if you're one of the regulars who knows about the command, you can magically get them when you need it without any strategy. I don't think this makes sense. No one here is explaining how it could make sense.
Why should they have penalty on using it as command? If you want to have them penalty I'd like a penalty on /kata or /sniper as well since it *MAGICALLY* spawns as per your logic.
Fine by me. I'd make them VIP-only pickups. I'd rather that be a separate topic though, so VIPs don't dominate this one complaining that they actually have to do something to get their pretty toys.
Pickups are definitely not easier to figure out otherwise a majority of players would know about the several grenade spawns in every map.
No, if people don't know about the grenade spawns, it's because they just do /holiday eng when they want grenades and/or they lack the curiosity to investigate the ? marks they've inevitably seen. Grenades came from pickups for years before /holiday eng fucked that up. Pickups can easily be notated on the map.
At least at a basic level, it doesn't make much sense to have a command that a minority of the server knows about that gives you useful weapons for free. Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out. I am more OK with the rifle being a command though, since it isn't really a big thing to be giving out. What about both /rifle and pickup, but a health penalty if you use the command (like /para)?
+1
But no health penalty that'd be stupid,why would one sacrifice health which is a crucial thing in long range battles. Keep the 3 minute timer /holiday eng and pickups at spawn.
They'd sacrifice health because they want the weapon instantaneously. I'm not sure if you're saying that you want the whole of /holiday eng + pickups at the spawn, but that would be a leap in the wrong direction. I am OK with the rifle being nearer to the spawns, because it's not that much of an advantage. However, if you want grenades or a spray can, I think they should be a trip that you have to decide to make. In exchange for doing it, you get more grenades (eight vs three) and more spray can than /holiday eng, which would hopefully not exist, would give you.
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Pickups are definitely not easier to figure out otherwise a majority of players would know about the several grenade spawns in every map.
No, if people don't know about the grenade spawns, it's because they just do /holiday eng when they want grenades and/or they lack the curiosity to investigate the ? marks they've inevitably seen. Grenades came from pickups for years before /holiday eng fucked that up. Pickups can easily be notated on the map.
Hmm interesting and is this your own observation or have actually been told this by non regular players who this actually concerns with?Because most of the time when someone tells them about the command i have seen them use it once and then they don't again because of the 3 minute cooldown which by your logic should itself encourage them to go look for more grenades outside of the use of this command.
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-1
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Pickups are definitely not easier to figure out otherwise a majority of players would know about the several grenade spawns in every map.
No, if people don't know about the grenade spawns, it's because they just do /holiday eng when they want grenades and/or they lack the curiosity to investigate the ? marks they've inevitably seen. Grenades came from pickups for years before /holiday eng fucked that up. Pickups can easily be notated on the map.
Hmm interesting and is this your own observation or have actually been told this by non regular players who this actually concerns with?Because most of the time when someone tells them about the command i have seen them use it once and then they don't again because of the 3 minute cooldown which by your logic should itself encourage them to go look for more grenades outside of the use of this command.
Okay, you're right. I don't know exactly what non-regular players do. However, you don't either, and you made an unfounded claim that apparently the majority of players can't figure out pickups so they don't know where the pickups are. My point is basically that with /holiday eng, you don't really need to know where the pickups are.
Personally, I don't really go to the pickups anymore. I just use /holiday eng when I need grenades, and I don't worry about the cooldown because I don't need them that often, or very many when I do. I think most people now play the same way because it's easier- I don't really see people going out of their way to grenade pickups anymore, and I used to see people at the grenade spawns all the time in maps like WV when I flew over. Is this a good thing? I don't think so.
I don't remember any logic of mine that was compatible with the idea that that the cooldown would drive people to the grenade pickups. When I started realizing that /holiday eng was particularly dumb was when I realized that the cooldown is basically a non-penalty if you only use /holiday eng when you need it. That was one of the main reasons I wrote this topic- that when used only when actually necessary, /holiday eng gives you weapons that are overpowered in the situations you'll want them in with basically no penalty.
The cooldown is only a penalty if you need to use the command more frequently than the cooldown lets you use it. If you run into situations where you'll need the weapons less than once every three minutes (which is the case for me and probably many others), the cooldown doesn't affect you much and you have grenades/spray can whenever you want them.
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Mind blown; totally didn't think of that possibility. Thank you for your lucid explanation of why /holiday eng makes sense in this gamemode.
I don't know why you're suggesting things like these lately without any reason to support it. ???
this lol
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Pickups are definitely not easier to figure out otherwise a majority of players would know about the several grenade spawns in every map.
No, if people don't know about the grenade spawns, it's because they just do /holiday eng when they want grenades and/or they lack the curiosity to investigate the ? marks they've inevitably seen. Grenades came from pickups for years before /holiday eng fucked that up. Pickups can easily be notated on the map.
Hmm interesting and is this your own observation or have actually been told this by non regular players who this actually concerns with?Because most of the time when someone tells them about the command i have seen them use it once and then they don't again because of the 3 minute cooldown which by your logic should itself encourage them to go look for more grenades outside of the use of this command.
Okay, you're right. I don't know exactly what non-regular players do. However, you don't either, and you made an unfounded claim that apparently the majority of players can't figure out pickups so they don't know where the pickups are. My point is basically that with /holiday eng, you don't really need to know where the pickups are.
Personally, I don't really go to the pickups anymore. I just use /holiday eng when I need grenades, and I don't worry about the cooldown because I don't need them that often, or very many when I do. I think most people now play the same way because it's easier- I don't really see people going out of their way to grenade pickups anymore, and I used to see people at the grenade spawns all the time in maps like WV when I flew over. Is this a good thing? I don't think so.
I don't remember any logic of mine that was compatible with the idea that that the cooldown would drive people to the grenade pickups. When I started realizing that /holiday eng was particularly dumb was when I realized that the cooldown is basically a non-penalty if you only use /holiday eng when you need it. That was one of the main reasons I wrote this topic- that when used only when actually necessary, /holiday eng gives you weapons that are overpowered in the situations you'll want them in with basically no penalty.
The cooldown is only a penalty if you need to use the command more frequently than the cooldown lets you use it. If you run into situations where you'll need the weapons less than once every three minutes (which is the case for me and probably many others), the cooldown doesn't affect you much and you have grenades/spray can whenever you want them.
Actually I do know better than you what non regular non vip players do because I am one.You wouldn't use a county rifle if you had access to a sniper rifle like you just said and you use it mostly for the grenades.As for my alleged "unfounded claim",my original statement was in response to your claim that Pickups make more sense in the context of the gamemode and are easier for new players to figure out.
I said it is in no way easier and my claim stands.Ask a non reg/new player which is easier, the command or the pickup and you will know why I make this claim that you allege to be "unfounded".
What you fail to mention is that there is still a incentive for people to go to the pickups because you get 8 grenades there compared to 3 in the command.You can't force people to do something just because you want them to go out of their way.
I refer to your statement No, if people don't know about the grenade spawns, it's because they just do /holiday eng when they want grenades and/or they lack the curiosity to investigate the ? marks they've inevitably seen.
.You clearly state that the reason people don't go to pickups is because they have /holiday eng.The cooldown acting as a deterrent against frequent use should automatically divert people to the pickups if one frequently uses grenades but in reality this doesn't hold true as I stated in one of my previous replies and as stated by you in this one that people use the command once and then don't typically use it for the rest of the round.
If you think the cooldown is not enough of a penalty for you and anyone who knows precisely when they need the command and apparently never are affected by the cooldown,I suggest imposing self limits like only using the command every 6 minutes.That would solve the issue for you by making it difficult enough to encourage you to go to pickups and revert to your old ways and the 3 minute cooldown will be more than enough deterrent for everyone else until the rest of players including I reach a state where I can precisely tell when I need to use the command.At that point I may be inclined to change my views on this issue.
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Lol im not understanding all the hate against this cmnd
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No -1,
Fucking deal with it.
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I dont get it.... You want to remove holiday eng but you dont want to remove the rifle for non vip players and you dont want to have pickups becauseeeee.... reasons.
(http://www.img.tpx.cz/uploads/afb66cd8166c969022054b43f3834a60.png)
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If /holiday eng gets removed, you better won't remove /holiday esp too
Jokes aside, -1. I personally use it all the time and if rifles are turned into pickups, you better make snipers pickups too.
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If /holiday eng gets removed, you better won't remove /holiday esp too
Jokes aside, -1. I personally use it all the time and if rifles are turned into pickups, you better make snipers pickups too.
Why yes, I do think that it would make more sense if snipers were pickups. I was too afraid to include that in my suggestion, since I believe that our VIP-majority forum would immediately shoot down curtailing their toys, and as a result this topic would be dominated by that bullshit. Ironically, many VIPs seem concerned about the "fairness" of removing a command that does nothing to balance VIP vs. non-VIP fights and never should have existed while ignoring the obvious unfairness of the sniper.
What you fail to mention is that there is still a incentive for people to go to the pickups because you get 8 grenades there compared to 3 in the command.You can't force people to do something just because you want them to go out of their way.
That's beside the point. It doesn't matter how many grenades you get from the pickup- you probably aren't going to use them all before dying unless you're spamming them, and it's a choice you have to make if you think they'll be valuable. Despite only giving 3 nades, /holiday eng means that you don't even have to make that choice. You just get the nades when you need them. Why go all the way to the grenade spawn, get 8 grenades, go to the President and hope you don't get killed before you can use them, when you could instead do /holiday eng when you know they'll be effective? Your argument is like saying that even if a hypothetical someone has a magical machine that gives them nutritious snacks whenever they truly feel hungry, they would go to a restaurant, get takeout they might not eat, and take it home despite the snack supply because there's more food to be received from a trip to the restaurant. Why would they? They can get all they really need without doing anything extra. Similarly, players can usually get all they need from /holiday eng.
If you think the cooldown is not enough of a penalty for you and anyone who knows precisely when they need the command and apparently never are affected by the cooldown,I suggest imposing self limits like only using the command every 6 minutes.That would solve the issue for you by making it difficult enough to encourage you to go to pickups and revert to your old ways and the 3 minute cooldown will be more than enough deterrent for everyone else until the rest of players including I reach a state where I can precisely tell when I need to use the command.At that point I may be inclined to change my views on this issue.
Nice. What you fail to mention is that the cooldown isn't a penalty at all, but instead it is a limit. If a cooldown is a penalty, then I guess not being able to throw grenades a millisecond after you just threw one is also a penalty? It's a limit. You aren't losing anything from using /holiday eng, you just aren't being allowed to gain from it as many times as you'd like in 3 minutes. Now, with that out of the way, could you tell me how it makes sense in this gamemode that players can just spawn powerful weapons out of nowhere, with no penalty? (Regardless of whether they might be limited to magically spawning them 2 out of the 3 times they'd like, in which case I'm curious as to how they're playing.) Maybe explain why /holiday eng was added in the first place? (Hint: Tenshi liked to add shit in that he could use against other players.) For bonus points, explain the hidden strategy I'm missing in two players finding each other in a situation where a spray can is decisive, but the ability to win in that situation depends entirely on typing speed instead of whether or not one person was smart enough to lure the other into a position where the spray can he went out of his way to pick up earlier would dominate.
Lol im not understanding all the hate against this cmnd
I can give and have given plenty of reasons to hate it, but can only see short-term benefit for the people who actually know of the command as a reason to love it.
I dont get it.... You want to remove holiday eng but you dont want to remove the rifle for non vip players and you dont want to have pickups becauseeeee.... reasons.
(http://www.img.tpx.cz/uploads/afb66cd8166c969022054b43f3834a60.png)
The spray can ... should be a pickup instead of a short command.
Similarly, grenades ... pickups.
Rifles should also be pickups, as has been suggested by Saurabh and others.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7f/eb/d5/7febd579514e6beba66c1c804a12ea91--unc-tarheels-carolina-blue.jpg)
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-1, that's the only command for non-ViPs to use against VIP's. Pick up would take time, it would be OP removing that command. Let's keep it that way..
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Dont have any admin to finish this...
😑😑
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-1, that's the only command for non-ViPs to use against VIP's.
So? It's not a balancing thing if VIPs can use it too. Even if it's so important to you, I'm not proposing removing the weapons entirely. I've gone over this.
Pick up would take time, it would be OP removing that command. Let's keep it that way..
I don't understand this, but you seem to be missing my point. On the contrary, I think it's OP to leave the command. The whole reason I'm suggesting the pickups is that I want it to take time to get the weapons- if you're wondering why, read above.
It would be nice if everyone actually read the topic before posting. I'm just repeating myself over and over because people keep posting the same "reasoning" when I've already addressed it. If you read the topic before replying, this discussion might actually go somewhere. If you're against this suggestion and you refute the arguments for it in a novel way, then maybe you might actually change my mind on something.
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We're not going to be adding this. I liked the idea of pickups at first, but in my opinion it comes with a lot of disadvantages as well. If we choose for pickups, then all weapons have to be pickups instead of commands. We can't have regular players having to go and pick up their weapon, while VIPs can just type a command. But with pickups, there's also a lot of drawbacks. First of all, there will have to be enough, so each class can easily access them. If we have to do that for every weapon, that means a lot of pickups. If we don't provide enough pickups, I feel the entire server would be in a race to get the pickups as soon as possible, before other people and classes arrive. And if there's multiple classes coming to pick up their weapons, it will just turn into another fighting point, people will be camping on these pickups, and I think it will eventually even distract people more from the gamemode.