The civi team absolutely ruins this balance. It's like cops vs robbers vs random people. It sucks when you're having a good, close, and interesting game and a civi in a hydra comes out of no where and absolutely decimates everyone. It's not fun. (Not to mention that, usually, civilian players are ridiculously good at the game.)
It's an absolutely useless team that ruins the flow of the gameplay. Choose a side. It serves no purpose besides letting edgy people do whatever the hell they want in an objective based game.Civilians aren't a useless team- there are plenty who generally do pick a side when they play as civilian, or they are playing as civilian because they want to do something that's not really related the the gamemode (yes, this could be considered "useless" but there are many servers that don't let you do things like flying planes without having to be a certain level or some bullshit like that). I tend to play as a civilian in certain maps because it's easier to get to the airport, but I usually function as a terrorist once I get a plane.
Do you want to protect the President? Cool. Choose security/police/swat.
Want to kill the President? Alright. Choose terrorist.
No
You are playing a game where you either kill or get killed, Everytime you kill someone you are affecting that player's game.
This is not cops and robbers, this server has a unique theme which makes this game so addictive and civilian class is a very important part of the theme. Not every player joins civilian class to kill everyone, civilian class is for those who don't want to associate with any other class, they are free to do whatever they want, it's your bad that you encountered wrong type of civilians.
civilians are free to do anything and that is the point, that means they can kill people or they can chill out with other civilians with firing a single shot, they do not care about protecting or killing president, civilians are not team they can kill other civilians, and civilian class is weak compared to other classes, that's the price for being civilian.
Most of the time, you guys are the ones who chase after civilians for easy kills,
Stop complaining about getting rekt by civilians.
Play as a civilian sometimes, let's hope we meet in game, I'll show you true fun of being a civilian. You'll love civilian class after playing together with me n my crew.
Hm, but what happens when I want to just chill the hell out with my online buddies, do some races and duel some people, without having to worry about /duty all the time?
Granted, the server's name is Protect the President. That's the name of the game and the main objective. But, PTP has never been strictly TDM server exactly because of the Civilian class. That class represents the way for people (mostly older, regular players) to chill out and have fun on their own. What you are suggesting is very radical and it's unlikely that it will come true.The civi team absolutely ruins this balance. It's like cops vs robbers vs random people. It sucks when you're having a good, close, and interesting game and a civi in a hydra comes out of no where and absolutely decimates everyone. It's not fun. (Not to mention that, usually, civilian players are ridiculously good at the game.)
In my opinion, that's the beauty of it. There was a topic recently where we discussed Civilian class and most of the players agreed that it's fun to have a class which can raise some hell independent from any other class. I've had several moments where I got pissed off at the Civilian team who wrecked me, but I never thought about removing the class just because of it.
TL;DR - improvise, adapt, overcome.
It's an absolutely useless team that ruins the flow of the gameplay. Choose a side. It serves no purpose besides letting edgy people do whatever the hell they want in an objective based game.Civilians aren't a useless team- there are plenty who generally do pick a side when they play as civilian, or they are playing as civilian because they want to do something that's not really related the the gamemode (yes, this could be considered "useless" but there are many servers that don't let you do things like flying planes without having to be a certain level or some bullshit like that). I tend to play as a civilian in certain maps because it's easier to get to the airport, but I usually function as a terrorist once I get a plane.
Do you want to protect the President? Cool. Choose security/police/swat.
Want to kill the President? Alright. Choose terrorist.
However, anyone that gives the "civilians are weak" excuse is ignoring something- civilians with sniper rifles are just as powerful as any other class at a distance, but they have the bonus of not having to give a shit who they kill. Long ago, sniper rifles were pretty much useless, so civilians actually were weak. Then lagcomp showed up- PTP never adjusted.
The real problem here is that civilians have little motivation to actually play the game when they could instead inflate their stats by indiscriminately sniping from a distance. I agree with you that the people who do this don't really serve a purpose. I think removing kills/deaths stats and replacing them with gamemode-oriented stats would probably help with this (as far as I know, this is in the works).
The other way to help with this problem would be to remove or increase the limit on the number of terrorists. It's not uncommon that someone wants to kill the president with a real class, but they can't because the number of terrorists is too limited. Increasing the number of terrorists would let more people actually play the gamemode instead of being relegated to aimlessly wandering around as a civilian until a spot shows up.
Didn't read, but removing civil class, really?
No.
If you're constantly telling people to "just deal with it," the problem is your game. Not the player. We can't keep using the "get better" excuse. The team is broken.
If you want to chill out, go to a chill server? Do you go to a tennis court and say, "you know what, I just want to play golf."
It's not having "fun on their own." It's disruptive. One moment a civilian is trying his/her hardest to kill the President, the next moment he/she is bitching in the chat because they want to hang out with the President and the security keeps killing them. A healthy game has two sides with two conflicting objectives. Take ANY two-sided video game and place a random 3rd side with no goal other than to disrupt the two teams.
PTP is not TDM, I agree. It's a weird mixture between TDM and FFA.
Again, my problem isn't that I'm constantly destroyed by civilians. My problem is how much disarray the class causes.
If you're constantly telling people to "just deal with it," the problem is your game. Not the player. We can't keep using the "get better" excuse. The team is broken.
If you want to chill out, go to a chill server? Do you go to a tennis court and say, "you know what, I just want to play golf."
It's not having "fun on their own." It's disruptive. One moment a civilian is trying his/her hardest to kill the President, the next moment he/she is bitching in the chat because they want to hang out with the President and the security keeps killing them. A healthy game has two sides with two conflicting objectives. Take ANY two-sided video game and place a random 3rd side with no goal other than to disrupt the two teams.
PTP is not TDM, I agree. It's a weird mixture between TDM and FFA.
Again, my problem isn't that I'm constantly destroyed by civilians. My problem is how much disarray the class causes.
Well tough luck, because I don't want to go to another server, where I don't know anyone, to chill out :P We have races, duels and events here for the Civilians and that's totally fine, isn't it?
I understand what you're saying, I do, and I also told you that everyone sometimes gets frustrated by the fickle nature of the Civilian class. Hell, people even suggested removing SWAT class and I think it's still better than what you are suggesting.
As a final thing to say, it's not easy being a skilled Civilian player, no matter what you think. You think it's easy to constantly gain kills as a Civ in a Rustler/Hydra/any other plane? Try it yourself and you will see it's actually kinda hard. Think it's easy to avoid being gangbanged by classes with running weapons while all you have are walking weapons? The point is the Civilians aren't omnipotent here, although they can be sometimes formidable when a couple of skilled players join together. But it's not a big deal imho, the game is not broken because of them.
Assuming you are a new player, just give it some time and you will get used to all kinds of shenanigans that PTP has to offer, "broken" Civilians included :)
P.S. about that tennis-golf reference, PTP is hardly a tennis court where people want to play some other sport. I rather think of it as a versatile playground that has one big area for the actual game mode (kill/protect the President), and one bordering it where people do other stuff. Occasionally, you will get some "intruders" in your area, though
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You choose the civilian team because it's too inconvenient to drive to the airport as a terrorist? I mean, sure, I guess it is pretty annoying. That's not a really good justification as to why you shouldn't choose one side.If I'm doing the same thing that I would if I were a terrorist, what's the difference? The penalty I pay is that I have shitty weapons when I jump out.
I never said civilians are weak. I'm not sure if you're accusing me of saying that or just making a general statement, though.I never said that you said it. I was making a general statement.
Also, "not giving a shit who they kill." That's the problem I have. If this is the case, why not let the security kill each other? Terrorist kill each other? I mean, we CLEARLY don't care about the lack of direction this class has. X vs Y vs Z isn't a good way to go about things.The problem, in my opinion, is that civilians were never a very attractive class to be in until they suddenly became much more powerful post-lagcomp. Now it's actually viable to become a civilian to build stats that shouldn't even be tracked.
Increasing the number of terrorist allowed is basically expecting people to do the right thing. We can't expect people to do the right thing on SAMP.Yep, but what do you propose, then? Setting a limit on the number of civilians? (I actually wouldn't be too opposed to this.)
Nice.Didn't read, but removing civil class, really?
No.
thanks for meticulously deconstructing my argument with reasonable logic.
It's an absolutely useless team that ruins the flow of the gameplay. Choose a side. It serves no purpose besides letting edgy people do whatever the hell they want in an objective based game.
Do you want to protect the President? Cool. Choose security/police/swat.
Want to kill the President? Alright. Choose terrorist.
The civi team absolutely ruins this balance. It's like cops vs robbers vs random people. It sucks when you're having a good, close, and interesting game and a civi in a hydra comes out of no where and absolutely decimates everyone. It's not fun. (Not to mention that, usually, civilian players are ridiculously good at the game.)
If we can't remove the civi team, at least remove their ability to kill people. Come on, guys. Choose a side. Stop being cocks. Isn't civilian suppose to be "neutral"? Killing everyone you see is not being "neutral." When you kill someone, you're helping the team opposite to that person you killed. It's not "neutral," it's being a troll.
concerns i KNOW people will have:
C: But I can play the game however I want!
A: Not when it affects other people.
C: get gud lol
A: me sucking at the game doesn't mean that the civilian team is broken as hell. civi team is only there for the special people who can't settle for being on one side of the spectrum.
C: you're just mad a civilian killed you lol
A: although it is true that i constantly get destroyed by civilians, the team is still BS. i don't mind getting killed by a terrorist when im security, and vice versa. it's annoying when a lone wolf with no real objective kills me. it's like playing basketball and all of a sudden a random 3rd team comes in with no real goal but to disrupt the game.
C: that would require complicated scripting.
A: no, it really doesn't.
C: it doesn't ruin the flow of the game.
A: yes, it really does.
C: Why punish people for just playing the game?
A: removing the civi team isn't punitive. it's necessary.
Those civilians with chainsaws and snipers are VIPs, not all civilians are VIP. Half of VIPs are statswhores.
It's hard to get easy kills on civilians. No one does this. All civilians have chainsaws, snipers, etc. which makes it absolutely insufferable to play the game.
And removing snipers and stats for civil class? Then why are they even allowed to kill, remove their weapons and make them god,
Then what to do when you have to practice stuff without ignoring your duty? Choose Civillian. They have none.
Civilians can't fly hydras,Tf? The only thing they can use is Rustler and it can be shot down with 3-4 M4s from below if they are competent enough.
Tbh most civilians can't do jack shit unless they teamup or have their sniper (which I fucking hate when they use it in a deagle battle)
You do realize one of the infamous things people commonly do in this server is kill Civillians for their stats or to even up their - points in frustration right?
and hence the civilians have been weakened for that purpose so the 'effect' at hand has a less chance of a significant impact on the normal gameplay. Although I hate snipers civilians. Camp at one proper place and ez mode activate.
You are only looking it from one single perspective there is more to the civilian class(lol at the team) than being a snowflake statswhore who can't afford to be on a single side.
What's up with this single sentenced responses with no substance?
It does but not that much of extent.
The Argument is retarded in itself as one is not playing the gamemode class to begin with unless one is genuinely trying to play a side but as a Civ just for the challenge.
Well remove security class too i think securities are bad just "cops vs terrorists" will be fine ...
..wait no no remove cops because security class are the ones supposed to support the president make it "terrorist vs security" ...
Maybe better Remove all the classes and let just civilians class vs the president .
Hmm hard to choose rlly .
I think we need a new forum rule :
" Do not suggest stuped suggestions "
If I'm doing the same thing that I would if I were a terrorist, what's the difference? The penalty I pay is that I have shitty weapons when I jump out.
The problem, in my opinion, is that civilians were never a very attractive class to be in until they suddenly became much more powerful post-lagcomp. Now it's actually viable to become a civilian to build stats that shouldn't even be tracked.
Yep, but what do you propose, then? Setting a limit on the number of civilians? (I actually wouldn't be too opposed to this.)
Nice.
What's wrong with the people now? I don't stop reading stupid suggestions every day, do you really think before posting it?
Civilians are the "freedom" of gamemode
You don't even know what weapons they have. So please, focus more on the gamemode and enjoy.
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Worst Suggestion till now in the PTP forum.....
Woah.. I think you need to play on the server more and make friends, to get the purpose of this class.
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