Poll

Is VIP Nitrous Ability of PlanB Overpowered for Vehicles? Should this feature be balanced out?

Yes,the spawning of nitro and using it indefinitely gives a sharp advantage.
No,it does not. It's not much of an advantage.

Author Topic: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?  (Read 25128 times)

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2018, 09:12:21 pm »
But the fact is that VIPs are there to work together against non-VIPs and not to cooperate with their team, so...  ::)
Wat

Do you understand that there are no formally "vip" and "nonvip" teams?
The question about why vips are fighting only about nonvips is a question about mental state of your "vip" community.
You know the nice thing about the Bronx Zoo, Charlie? There's bars between you and the monkeys.

Offline Deadman

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2018, 09:48:57 pm »
But the fact is that VIPs are there to work together against non-VIPs and not to cooperate with their team, so...  ::)
Wat

Do you understand that there are no formally "vip" and "nonvip" teams?
The question about why vips are fighting only about nonvips is a question about mental state of your "vip" community.
#Triggered.

Offline YoMama

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2018, 01:16:44 am »
After playing recently, I finally thought of one thing I use nitrous for that I wouldn't be able to do as easily without, which is driving up some hills. Some are steep enough that a car like a Rancher can climb it with nitrous and a reasonable head start, but it will slide back slowly without both. However, it's still pretty far from OP when without nitrous, you can:
a) have a longer runup time to gain more speed and go up the hill
b) turn around and go up the hill backwards, which I still end up doing 70% of the time because many hills are just too steep for nitrous anyway, or I don't have the head start (backwards also gives you more control)
c) just get a motorcycle or a better car like a Sand King instead
d) go around another way
e) if you're attacking, use a plane, which is the Achilles heel of any four-wheeled vehicle anyway.
f) do the reasonable thing and run up the hill if it's so important- it's usually faster on any hill steep enough that nitrous would be advantageous, and you can go up steeper hills than any car or bike

Asking vips about vip`s features is like asking drug addicts about drug addiction.
If you mean that they defend the habit only because they rely on it: often, yes; in this case, no.

Compare nrg and rancher with endless nitro = you can not reach rancher with nrg. On the highway, on the city`s streets, anywhere.
I hope I'm misinterpreting your post and you're being sarcastic, because that's pretty far from true. I use NRGs because I can't escape terrorists on NRGs with FBI Ranchers. I do spam nitrous, too. I have no shame in mentioning my nitrous-spamming because it isn't much of an advantage (unlike snipers, which I rarely use because I feel shitty about using them). NRGs are faster in acceleration and top speed (even with passengers), they are smaller targets, more agile, and more versatile. The only things you really lose in my eyes when switching to an NRG are the redundancy of four tires, the ability to carry three passengers without people standing on top, and the fact that you can't fall out of the Rancher. I love Ranchers, but you'll only see me using them regularly in maps where NRGs are not available to chase me. Even so, I think most of the other racing bikes are also faster than the Rancher (not sure though) so I often use other racing bikes when available.

No one is discussing about the removal of Nos. Its about is it overpowered or not. And for me limiting the Nos for only the president class would make it far less overpowered. (Not removal, only limiting it in a certain class)
That's the same argument as the "stop the President from flying because it's unfair" bullshit that plagued anyone who wanted to fly for a number of years and still plagues anyone who wants to fly a Rustler as President or not watch their health slowly decrease from a bullshit timer. It's a petty action that does nothing to solve a "problem" that doesn't actually exist.

Take your suggestion and think about what it doesn't do. It doesn't stop other classes from driving the President with nitrous. It doesn't change the fact that the President can still use other VIP features that are actually overpowered, with no good counter available for non-VIPs (*cough* sniper *cough*). If I were President after your change, it would change very little of my strategy because I don't trust people to drive me anyway, and I use NRGs and planes more than anything else. If I were security driving the President, it would change none of it. The only real effects would be annoying anyone who knows how useless and petty the limitation is, and probably leading future generations of PTP players to believe that it's somehow necessary, just like the flying limitation.

TL;DR: Still not seeing any good reasons why nitrous is significantly overpowered. FBI Ranchers are not suddenly better than NRGs and other fast vehicles when sprinkled with magical nitrous fairy dust. In the rare case I can think of so far where nitrous is a somewhat significant advantage over the same car doing the same thing without, it can be overcome in many simple ways that render the "overpowered" label laughable.

If you want to keep saying that it's overpowered, you might want to produce something that actually proves it. If you really care (as you should) about VIPs being overpowered, spend your time on VIPs flooding one side with force-reclassing and making it difficult for the other side using their real advantages, like the sniper and saw. You could also focus on their less obvious advantage, which is that many of them are in conceited and cocksure clans that harbor verified hackers and other rulebreakers and refuse to shoot each other when they should but are creaming their jeans for the opportunity to shoot at anyone else in the same situation (also applies to clanless VIPs). You could also start convincing your friends to actually play the gamemode, because no amount of nitrous, NRG driving, sniping, or other bullshit from one President can easily overcome all the terrorists actually playing the gamemode and chasing the President as a team on bikes, in fast cars, and from the air.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 02:10:43 am by YoMama »

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2018, 09:33:14 pm »
a) have a longer runup time to gain more speed and go up the hill
b) turn around and go up the hill backwards, which I still end up doing 70% of the time because many hills are just too steep for nitrous anyway, or I don't have the head start (backwards also gives you more control)
c) just get a motorcycle or a better car like a Sand King instead
d) go around another way
e) if you're attacking, use a plane, which is the Achilles heel of any four-wheeled vehicle anyway.
f) do the reasonable thing and run up the hill if it's so important- it's usually faster on any hill steep enough that nitrous would be advantageous, and you can go up steeper hills than any car or bike
a) no, you can not. because when you chase president, and he decides to move to the hill (and with nitro he can do it just without runup), you need to go back for that runup, and that will cost you, like, 15 seconds?
b) chasing president by moving backward?
c) or a hydra. there is a "one balance" between vehicles in SA and absolutely "another balance" between them if you will add nitro.
d) or another server. you do not have a chance when you are going 1 on 1 with preident by going "around" every single time he decides to go to "the hill".
e) normally, plane is a support vehicle when u attack president. you always need someone on foot to finish him. without it - it will be kinda useless.
f) same as d)

>If you mean that they defend the habit only because they rely on it: often, yes; in this case, no.
In any case, only lvl0-1 players know how to play against vip features without them.

> I use NRGs because I can't escape terrorists on NRGs with FBI Ranchers.
I do not think you`ve tried enough. Because if you have at least 1 sec with m4 on top of your rancher, it will be, like, impossible to catch that rancher with nrg and tec. It is barely possible to do when rancher do not have nitro (jumping on the back wheel of rancher and do not let that m4 shoot your tires). But again, it is not about 1v1 situation. What if you add another arguments to this? For example, 2 terrorists in the nrg (which is a main strat for terrors). Will it be possible to catch that "nitro rancher"`s speed?
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Offline YoMama

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2018, 08:02:22 am »
a) no, you can not. because when you chase president, and he decides to move to the hill (and with nitro he can do it just without runup), you need to go back for that runup, and that will cost you, like, 15 seconds?
b) chasing president by moving backward?
c) or a hydra. there is a "one balance" between vehicles in SA and absolutely "another balance" between them if you will add nitro.
d) or another server. you do not have a chance when you are going 1 on 1 with preident by going "around" every single time he decides to go to "the hill".
e) normally, plane is a support vehicle when u attack president. you always need someone on foot to finish him. without it - it will be kinda useless.
f) same as d)
a) There aren't too many hills that fit the case where you can start up with nitro but not without. Usually you either need a big runup with both or you can't do it without going backward. The second try for a runup problem also happens to nitrous users.
b) Sure, why not? It's not uncommon for me to do it. If you had a bike (again, no nitro required) it would actually matter if you faced backward, but then again you'd be able to go up any hill that the car could go up forward.
c) Obviously the same car will have more power with nitro, but unless the person who is outrunning you is driving the most powerful car, I still don't see how this is unbalanced. Get a better car... or a plane, or a bike.
d) Depends on the hill. I'm not saying every one of these applies in every circumstance.
e) No, really steep hills are great if you've got a plane. Just ram the target off! They're not "support vehicles" in my book. You have a lot of options to kill someone when you have blown up their car, like ramming, shooting, landing and shooting, picking them up and dropping them (difficult), jumping out of the plane and killing them on foot (can be combined with ramming as you jump out to knock them down). Even if you don't kill them, you've definitely dealt them a setback.
f) If the hill is so steep that nitro is the only thing getting you up it, you aren't moving much faster than someone running. Those hills are dangerous regardless because you get very close to possibly DBing terrorists from the slowdown.

My point was that you have a lot of options that cover most circumstances. I wasn't claiming that any were silver bullets, even though you're acting like they are. Find a circumstance where you can't overcome the slight nitrous advantage on a hill with one of those options.

In any case, only lvl0-1 players know how to play against vip features without them.
Come on. Your generalizations are a little ridiculous. I can't use VIP features in a plane or on a bike, and I use both against VIPs all the time. I use bikes in favor of nitrous-equipped vehicles. How often do I use VIP features against you? The one I use most often is nitrous, which you still haven't convinced me is much of an advantage, particularly when I know you'll come after me with bikes or planes if I'm stupid enough to rely on it.

> I use NRGs because I can't escape terrorists on NRGs with FBI Ranchers.
I do not think you`ve tried enough. Because if you have at least 1 sec with m4 on top of your rancher, it will be, like, impossible to catch that rancher with nrg and tec. It is barely possible to do when rancher do not have nitro (jumping on the back wheel of rancher and do not let that m4 shoot your tires). But again, it is not about 1v1 situation. What if you add another arguments to this? For example, 2 terrorists in the nrg (which is a main strat for terrors). Will it be possible to catch that "nitro rancher"`s speed?
It'll be even more impossible to catch an NRG with a security with an M4. I attack Ranchers and other cars with and without security all the time. I avoid line of sight until I can get so close that I'm difficult to shoot. I usually don't even have a passenger if I have an NRG. It's much easier with one. It's absurdly easy with a plane.

TL;DR: I am still unconvinced. You're telling me that dealing with some nitrous-enabled cars is impossible when I see you handling them all the time, along with plenty of other non-VIPs and myself, without nitrous. Yes, one car will be faster than the same thing without nitrous. However, if you regularly try to catch the nitrous car with the same car without it and then find it unfair, you're either a moron or you have an unconventional definition of the word "unfair". It's simple. If you're a terrorist, you already spawn with naturally more powerful cars and bikes. If you're anything else, you can just get a more powerful car or bike, or you can get a plane. If you're trying to catch someone in a car with another car with no passenger, you're a glutton for punishment. Get a passenger, get a motorcycle, or in the (unlikely) event that the motorcycle is too slow, get a plane.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 08:06:59 am by YoMama »

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2018, 11:22:43 am »
You know, Yomama, you can call me how you want. You can even think that i care about, how you sayin`, "fair/unfair" things. This topic and many others, they are all the same for me. You can go with your examples, "moving backward" strats etc. For me it is not about "OP nitro". Because i always look at all this useless topics from 1 point.

Do you know why this topic is useless? Do you know that months and months ago there was a discussion about abusing infinite nitro? Do you know that months and months ago admins stated they gonna remove infinite nitro? Do you know that months and months ago admins stated they removed infinite nitro? Do you know that for all this months and months nothing changed and we still have infinite nitro? Do you know that for all this months and months nobody asked admins why this shit still happen?

So, why don`t you start this topic with this question? And when (not if, but when) admins will do what they always do, you will realise that you "examples", discussions are totally pointless.

Now, you are saying that nitro is not the biggest issue with vip`s features, so why we don`t start with something more obvious.
I am saying "why we do not start with nitro".
Because every single feature gives extra, hmm, lets call it "power". For example, 1st one gives you 10%, 2nd gives you 10%. But together they will give you not 120%, but, lets say, 121%. Lets call it synergy.
How many features do we have? A lot of. If vip player is smart/old, he can receive a lot of "extra" bonuses from this synergy by combining this features.

Now, you example are all about 1v1 situations. But when we will take whole server, we will figure out, that vips are playing with vips gainst nonvips. So, take this "synergy" and move it to the 2nd level.
And if you will remove 1 single vip feature from the whole server, even the most "weak" one, what you call "not OP", difference will be huge.

Now, that your example about aircraft. Everyone here knows why exactly we "killed" air part of this gamemode. There is only 1 reason - because vips do not have vip features for aircraft. This is a FACT. And when you see vips are responding in a "it is not OP"-style posts, you know exactly what stands behind all this posts. This is why their posts always mean NOTHING to a constitutive part of discussion. Ever.
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Offline Saurabh

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2018, 03:54:12 pm »
Solod, that guy's face in your signature is the reaction we have when we read your long ass-says.

Offline YoMama

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2018, 08:42:53 am »
You know, Yomama, you can call me how you want.
I'm not calling you anything? EDIT: I guess you're talking about my "either a moron or you have an unconventional definition of the word 'unfair'" line? I'm just saying that I think treating nitrous like it's a game-changing ability is ridiculous. For the record, I know you aren't a moron, but I do think that you are going a little far by calling nitrous OP.

Now, that your example about aircraft. Everyone here knows why exactly we "killed" air part of this gamemode. There is only 1 reason - because vips do not have vip features for aircraft. This is a FACT. And when you see vips are responding in a "it is not OP"-style posts, you know exactly what stands behind all this posts. This is why their posts always mean NOTHING to a constitutive part of discussion. Ever.
That's a little simplistic. I think the fact that most people can't fly at the same level that they can do stuff on the ground is most of why they don't like having to do it. Yes, VIP weapons mean you can do even more on the ground, so it feels like less is possible in the air, but there are VIPs who like flying. There are also many non-VIPs who hate flying. I think it's mainly that people don't like having to show their lack of skills in the air, which is sad, because it really isn't difficult to get good at flying with a bit of practice.

I am saying "why we do not start with nitro".
Because you really wouldn't be accomplishing much? What about starting with the weapons? Or maybe unlimited force reclassing so you can end up with a gigantic team of just VIPs? There are so many VIP features (and practices) that are much more deserving of this level of scrutiny than nitrous. If you removed nitrous, the difference would probably be 1% in your example.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 09:00:55 am by YoMama »

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2018, 10:40:54 am »
you are going a little far by calling nitrous OP
but there are VIPs who like flying. There are also many non-VIPs who hate flying
What about starting with the weapons?
Nitro is arguably an overpowered feature. Infinite nitro is unarguably an overpowered feature.
It should never be about "like/not". Because this "like/not" thing is a reason for many problems this server has.
Like i said, admins already "started" with infinite nitro.

Edit: double post

I am asking again any authorized admin to answer this question: why infinite nitro still exists if PTP head admin said it was fixed. Or correct me if i am wrong.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:31:58 pm by Jonne »
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Offline Jonne

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2018, 07:33:12 pm »
I am asking again any authorized admin to answer this question: why infinite nitro still exists if PTP head admin said it was fixed. Or correct me if i am wrong.

I'm not really sure what you're referring to. Who said what exactly?

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2018, 09:29:37 pm »
I'm not really sure what you're referring to. Who said what exactly?
I am pretty sure there was a conversation about nitro abuse and if i remember correctly admins said they will fix it.

/e
I found some old topic about this nitro. But looks like you did diametrically opposite thing - you MADE infinite nitro instead of removing it. And i completely do not understand the logic.
Maybe you can explain? Why you decided that nitro-to-any-car was not enough, and made infinite nitro? What arguments do you have? Maybe you did some tests, got some numbers?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 10:22:57 pm by SoLoD »
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Offline Jonne

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2018, 10:54:33 pm »
The /nos command has always been infinite, there were never any limitations on it. The only thing we did was add a shortcut for it (pressing Y instead of the command), which I don't think had a lot of impact on how people were using it.

Offline SoLoD

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2018, 11:38:55 pm »
The /nos command has always been infinite, there were never any limitations on it. The only thing we did was add a shortcut for it (pressing Y instead of the command), which I don't think had a lot of impact on how people were using it.
But the question was: what arguments do you have to "keep" infinite nitro on the server?
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Offline Arabiane

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2018, 08:31:06 am »
The /nos command has always been infinite, there were never any limitations on it. The only thing we did was add a shortcut for it (pressing Y instead of the command), which I don't think had a lot of impact on how people were using it.
But the question was: what arguments do you have to "keep" infinite nitro on the server?
Go f************, everytime i see the forum,i found you moaning and" crying about vips features.
i don't knew why are you still playing here.

Offline Jonne

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Re: Poll/Discussion: Is VIP Nitro OP in PlanB?
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2018, 12:57:26 pm »
I don't think there's that much of an advantage to gain between just having normal nitro and infinite nitro. I'm not denying there an advantage exists, of course there is, but I just think the margin on this is very low, and not enough to warrant limiting it. I don't see it as an unovercomable advantage. So, I agree with the poll and I don't think we should be limiting it.