Discussion about the rules

[Altus_Demens]

First, I suggest to add (or, better to say, to commit in writing) the following rule:

• No cooperation between opposing teams
- You cannot anyhow help terrorists if you are police/swat/security and vice versa, even if there are your friends among your opponents. Do not intentionally make any obstacles to your teammates while they are fighting. Do not leak any sort of tactical information from your teamchat.

Second, I think it is time to create a complete and correct version of the rules, so there would be no misunderstanding or confusion. What we have now cannot be considered "rules". It is just a set of statements, and ideally it should be used only as 'tl;dr' list. The complete rules must contain at least precise definitions of punishable deeds and punishments; it must be stated explicitly what awaits a rulebreaker, including relapse cases. I clearly understand that it can't be done immediately, but you can count on my help if we decide that the updated rules are needed.

I'm looking forward to see the opinions and different point of views, especially about the second suggestion.

[TreePuncher]

First, I suggest to add (or, better to say, to commit in writing) the following rule:

• No cooperation between opposing teams
- You cannot anyhow help terrorists if you are police/swat/security and vice versa, even if there are your friends among your opponents. Do not intentionally make any obstacles to your teammates while they are fighting. Do not leak any sort of tactical information from your teamchat.

Second, I think it is time to create a complete and correct version of the rules, so there would be no misunderstanding or confusion. What we have now cannot be considered "rules". It is just a set of statements, and ideally it should be used only as 'tl;dr' list. The complete rules must contain at least precise definitions of punishable deeds and punishments; it must be stated explicitly what awaits a rulebreaker, including relapse cases. I clearly understand that it can't be done immediately, but you can count on my help if we decide that the updated rules are needed.

I'm looking forward to see the opinions and different point of views, especially about the second suggestion.

I guess that rule already exists under a different description.
However, I always thought that the concept of having spies during gameplay was actually a cool thing (though limited, ofc.). It seems more real since corruption is always present somewhere, and it adds a little more of a challenge as you have to filter out who you trust and who might be a potential spy.
But that's just my opinion, and it totally goes against your duty, so don't really do it...

[Mark[KTP]]

First, I suggest to add (or, better to say, to commit in writing) the following rule:

• No cooperation between opposing teams
- You cannot anyhow help terrorists if you are police/swat/security and vice versa, even if there are your friends among your opponents. Do not intentionally make any obstacles to your teammates while they are fighting. Do not leak any sort of tactical information from your teamchat.

Second, I think it is time to create a complete and correct version of the rules, so there would be no misunderstanding or confusion. What we have now cannot be considered "rules". It is just a set of statements, and ideally it should be used only as 'tl;dr' list. The complete rules must contain at least precise definitions of punishable deeds and punishments; it must be stated explicitly what awaits a rulebreaker, including relapse cases. I clearly understand that it can't be done immediately, but you can count on my help if we decide that the updated rules are needed.

I'm looking forward to see the opinions and different point of views, especially about the second suggestion.

Totally agree with 1 point.
About the 2 I don't think it happen very often.

[Spectre]

Yeah, we shouldn't be too punishing towards guys who leak info about where President is atm, like TP said it's kind of part of the gameplay. But yes, there should be no cooperation between Police and Terrorists, for example. I thought that rule was already there

[Jonne]

We do punish for it already, under the 'no teamshooting' rule. I'll expand that a bit to include this as well. I already made it so you can't the vehicle of an opposing team member as passenger, since we had some trouble with that in the past. The most obvious I can think of now, in terms of helping the opposing team, is for example chainsawing or spraying someone of your own team, so the other team can kill him. If it's very obvious they're trying to help the other team, they will be punished.

[Altus_Demens]

Yeah, we shouldn't be too punishing towards guys who leak info about where President is atm, like TP said it's kind of part of the gameplay. But yes, there should be no cooperation between Police and Terrorists, for example. I thought that rule was already there

Yes, but if this is happening consistently, I guess it should be suppressed.
If it has been up to me, I would also try to prevent the situations where players ignore each others' alignment and stay aside if their teammate is fighting their 'friend' from the opposite team. But I understand that it is principally impossible in our 'friendly', 'united' and 'touchy' community; I cannot change the mentality of the people... But the explicit helping and cooperation should be prevented and punished. Fortunately, like Jonne said, such things would never happen again on our new server.

We do punish for it already, under the 'no teamshooting' rule. I'll expand that a bit to include this as well. I already made it so you can't the vehicle of an opposing team member as passenger, since we had some trouble with that in the past. The most obvious I can think of now, in terms of helping the opposing team, is for example chainsawing or spraying someone of your own team, so the other team can kill him. If it's very obvious they're trying to help the other team, they will be punished.

Thanks. Consider modifying rules as soon as possible, please, because for now de jure there is nothing about such behaviour there.

[Altus_Demens]

The topic about no-reloading is closed, but the question remains unclear.

The only document which determines what is permitted and what is not permitted on our server is Rules list. The only person who is above the Rules is Jonne as he is the owner of the whole server. Of course, I don't think we would have that much fun playing together here if Jonne didn't follow his own Rules, but it is another matter. Everyone else, starting from lvl5s and ending with any unregistered newcomer, is obligated to follow them - and is free to do anything which is not prohibited there.

• No bug abusing
- C-bugging, Slide-bugging and 2-shooting with Sawn Off shotgun is not allowed. These are the only bugs we will punish for. In    duels all bugs are allowed. | Glitching into textures is forbidden | Bugging into classes is forbidden | "Ninja jacking" is                forbidden

It means that punishable are: c-bugging, slide-bugging, 2-shooting. Everybody is free to use any other bug. Even if you consider skipping reload (if it is not 2-shooting) to be a bug, you can use it, and nobody should punish you for it. So, if NatzuK doesn't lie in his report, then COBRA's kick was not legit, and he shouldn't do it again. No admin can enforce his own Rules, times of Lacerta are gone. I would also like to ask how could NatzuK use 2-shot bug as it is prevented scriptwise (and, as far as I know, the script is unavoidable)...

Summarizing: you are not allowed do anything that is explicitly prohibited in the Rules. You are allowed to do everything else.

Considering this, I cannot neither understand nor agree with that:

All you need to know skipping reload on other weapons are allowed. But when you skip reloading on sawns, you make 2-shoot bug with sawnoff.

When you do 4 shots with sawnoff shotgun, you can switch to MP5/M4 after that quickly and avoid reloading animation. Sometimes it is called "4-shots bug", or just "4-shots". I don't know what did you mean, COBRA, but your words look like you are calling it also "2-shot" and stating that it is not allowed on our server, which comes in contradiction with the Rules. So, please, either explain yourself or modify your message to prevent any further confusion among the players. Thank you.

P.S. Of course, everything what I said above is just my subjective opinion. But, as far as I know, the owner of the server agrees with me in terms of Rules' supremacy. Correct me if I am wrong.

[COBRA]

To make it clear for everyone:

It means that punishable are: c-bugging, slide-bugging, 2-shooting. Everybody is free to use any other bug. Even if you consider skipping reload (if it is not 2-shooting) to be a bug, you can use it, and nobody should punish you for it. So, if NatzuK doesn't lie in his report, then COBRA's kick was not legit, and he shouldn't do it again. No admin can enforce his own Rules, times of Lacerta are gone. I would also like to ask how could NatzuK use 2-shot bug as it is prevented scriptwise (and, as far as I know, the script is unavoidable)...

In the case of Natzuk's report;
I just kicked him because he made a huge advantage there by 2-shooting at first time. Yeah that's right we have a system can punish for kind of bug abuses like as (C-bug, Slide-bug, 2-shoot bug etc..). But the moment when he about to kill enemy team by abusing 2-shoot bug to kill faster as a regular player. I decided to kick him instead of waiting for to system punishing him. You can even ask Jonne about system logs if AC warned him about 2-shoot bug too. Because I saw that happened with my eyes and on the Anticheat report too. So Natzuk's word about "i didn't use 2-shot" was a lie. You can be sure about that.
Actually I always let the system handle it for bug reports. But at this time, I just kicked him for doing it considered he did it on purpose. I should let the system handle it at the first place. We all admins should let the system handle it since we have script for it. But the decision was taken for a regular player doing a bug abuse to make advantage unfairly on purpose.

All you need to know skipping reload on other weapons are allowed. But when you skip reloading on sawns, you make 2-shoot bug with sawnoff.

When you do 4 shots with sawnoff shotgun, you can switch to MP5/M4 after that quickly and avoid reloading animation. Sometimes it is called "4-shots bug", or just "4-shots". I don't know what did you mean, COBRA, but your words look like you are calling it also "2-shot" and stating that it is not allowed on our server, which comes in contradiction with the Rules. So, please, either explain yourself or modify your message to prevent any further confusion among the players. Thank you.

2-shoot bug and 4 shoot:
I know the difference between 4 shoot and 2 shoot bug. I have enough experience to know 4 shoot and can't be confused with 2 shoot bug.
We have got AC warnings about Natzuk used 2-shoot bug.  I didn't create my own rules or didn't kicked him for no reloading.
Also Natzuk knows that he did 2-shoot bug too. Just he didn't admit it and denied.

Edit: (This topic is unlocked now, sorry for my bad. I thought "No reload" topic was about Natzuk's 2-shoot confusion. So I just made a quick-reply there...)