Author Topic: Remove anti-enter glitch system  (Read 509 times)

Offline YoMama

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Remove anti-enter glitch system
« on: January 08, 2019, 12:34:34 pm »
I'm assuming the change mentioned in my bug report is live, but it doesn't really matter.

I don't think the problem the anti-enter glitch system attempts to solve is sufficiently prevalent or severe to merit the constant annoyance it causes. The system often screws me up in game, yet I've only seen someone actually abuse the enter bug once that I can think of, and it didn't really interfere with gameplay nor give much of an advantage. It was a "wow, this person is an idiot" *moves on to President* moment.

At best, the system might prevent what seems to be extremely rare abuse of a bug that nearly no one knew about, before the system was created. At worst, it fucks up gameplay and constantly annoys players who are doing nothing wrong, while the awareness of the bug resulting from the system's existence just makes it more likely that people will try to abuse it. (On that note, if the system is removed, I'm all for obscuring past posts about the bug to prevent abuse.)

I think it would be best to remove the system entirely.

Offline Seven

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Re: Remove anti-enter glitch system
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 03:12:57 pm »
The anti-enter system I think that it was already eliminated.

Offline Altus_Demens

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Re: Remove anti-enter glitch system
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2019, 11:20:12 am »
I don't think that I can agree with you.

At best, the system might prevent what seems to be extremely rare abuse of a bug that nearly no one knew about, before the system was created.
If this was true, I guess that the system would have never been added. Let me provide some background.
The abuse of this bug was spotted at least 1.5 years ago for the first time. In the beginning it was performed by a single person. It was annoying, but, as you say, it was not really a big deal, however, Mia and I developed two independent fixes for this bug shorty after we had witnessed it. Eventually the aforementioned person ceased to play here and the fixes had never been added that time.

The issue became topical again a few months ago when this bug was noticed to be abused regularly again by different players, even without the "zero patient". The problem required either a program or a legal solution, and the program one already existed, so we only needed to hunt it out; Mia and I merged our code, which seemed to have worked the best, and upon further testing and improvement it was added to the server.

(On that note, if the system is removed, I'm all for obscuring past posts about the bug to prevent abuse.)
Also, that's why the "security via obscurity" will not work.

...and it didn't really interfere with gameplay nor give much of an advantage. It was a "wow, this person is an idiot" *moves on to President* moment.
As much as you're right that it doesn't really interfere with PTP gameplay, the reality is that the common onfoot fights are an integral part of the gamemode. We can't simply disregard it. Players want fairness, and this is a foundation stone of the policy of the administration; unlike real life, it can be achieved here (within reasonable limits). The realization of the fact that anyone can survive in a fight performing this bug feels extremely unfair. Why to put any efforts in the game if a rival can just hit "F" and nullify them? That's the same reason we have the rule about death evasion. Is it a big deal that your enemy quits the game in front of the last bullet destined to finish them? No. But it feels as unfair as, say, hacking.

That's why I think that we should keep the system, fixing and improving it again. Please, state what exactly causes your dissatisfaction. Explain us what should be corrected, and we'll do our best to make the system optimal. So, -1.



For last, please note that it is just my subjective opinion over the issue.
A paltry man and poor of mind
At all things ever mocks;
For never he knows, what he ought to know,
That he is not free from faults.



Offline YoMama

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Re: Remove anti-enter glitch system
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2019, 12:46:44 pm »
(On that note, if the system is removed, I'm all for obscuring past posts about the bug to prevent abuse.)
Also, that's why the "security via obscurity" will not work.
It probably won't work as well as it has for the past 9-10 years before this system. Security through obscurity made me totally unaware of the abuse potential for this bug until it showed up on the forums within the last year or so. I think mostly it's the newer players who are most likely to abuse the bug, not established ones who would be shamed by doing it. The newer players are probably more likely to find out about the bug from posts like this, so if you obscure them, the bug itself might not be as well-known among future new players.


Players want fairness, and this is a foundation stone of the policy of the administration; unlike real life, it can be achieved here (within reasonable limits). The realization of the fact that anyone can survive in a fight performing this bug feels extremely unfair. Why to put any efforts in the game if a rival can just hit "F" and nullify them? That's the same reason we have the rule about death evasion. Is it a big deal that your enemy quits the game in front of the last bullet destined to finish them? No. But it feels as unfair as, say, hacking.
If so many players really value fairness, then perhaps they wouldn't have little bullshit non-aggression pacts that they keep between opposing teams. I am regularly reminded of this blatant unfairness, and last I saw there isn't as big of an effort to fix that as there is a relatively harmless little bug that unlike the non-aggression bullshit, doesn't drive new players away because it's so ingrained in server culture. What most regular players here really seem to want is to be able to kill anyone they aren't "friends" with ease, which is why they need a sniper, need a chainsaw, need their fast skins (unfair), don't like having to chase people in vehicles or planes who actually know what they're doing, and why they often refuse to shoot each other so they can get to the people they want to kill.


TL;DR:
That's why I think that we should keep the system, fixing and improving it again. Please, state what exactly causes your dissatisfaction. Explain us what should be corrected, and we'll do our best to make the system optimal.
I've played this game for almost 10 years now, and had this bug impact me once that I can think of, and I can't even remember the exact circumstances because it was such a non-event. On the other hand, every time I play the game now, I get messed up by this system to varying degrees, depending on whether I'm in an already bad situation or not. All it takes is for me to fall off a bike and try to get back on, or try to jack a terrorist next to me after I fall, or just tap enter a few too many times, and I'm screwed by the system.

There has to be some kind of cost-benefit analysis here. If you can make the system work so well that it's totally invisible to a player who doesn't try to abuse the bug (like the c-bug system), then keep the system. However, just a few false positives are already much more annoying to me than a bug I've seen abused once, and I generate false positives prolifically. At that point, it's certainly not worth it. I'd rather watch someone embarrass themself thinking that they're being clever by abusing a bug than be repeatedly killed or screwed up by a system that I don't even feel is necessary.

Could you explain how the system currently works? It detects keypresses, right?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 01:01:49 pm by YoMama »

Offline Jonne

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Re: Remove anti-enter glitch system
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 11:27:05 am »
There was a bug in the system, I released an update for it last week. There's also some parameters which we can still finetune, so I feel we can still keep the system in to prevent abuse, without limiting normal gameplay. We've also added some logging, so if you encounter any bug relating to this system in the future, just take a screenshot (so we can match the chatlogs with our logs, and pinpoint the exact moment it happened) and post it here, or in the bug report section.