[To be added]What's ruining the server and some ideas on how to solve it

[iDanz0r]

I will ignore the fact that an admin of this server is telling me that my opinion is less valuable because I am part of a clan, even though I've never taken part of a single clan war. So not only my past actions qualify me to give this suggestion, but also the suggestion itself is supported by facts and other people.

One suggestion is to remove the useless admins who are setting a bad example to the community players by criticizing every single person who comes up with a different perspective in order to demand changes in the server.

A GgT complaining about clan wars. *Oh the irony*

Let it be a constructive discussion. If you cannot contribute into this, you shouldn't reply either with your sarcastic comments.

[Carg]

One suggestion is to remove the useless admins who are setting a bad example to the community players by criticizing every single person who comes up with a different perspective in order to demand changes in the server.

That's actually a good idea, I would add let's ban every hacker or cheater that harms/have harmed the server, permanently, without a chance of reconsideration.

A GgT complaining about clan wars. *Oh the irony*

Let it be a constructive discussion. If you cannot contribute into this, you shouldn't reply either with your sarcastic comments.

Why? How am I not letting it be constructive discussion? How do you know I can't contribute to thise, and why can't I reply with sarcastic comments?

[Srex_Zangetsu]

One suggestion is to remove the useless admins who are setting a bad example to the community players by criticizing every single person who comes up with a different perspective in order to demand changes in the server.

Let it be a constructive discussion. If you cannot contribute into this, you shouldn't reply either with your sarcastic comments.

Agreed with both.Mods who cannot or,more likely,don't want to support progress or obstruct it,should be reconsidered about their position.
As for the constructivity,I agree.I do not support sarcasm around such important matter.Maybe I did bring some other elements into the topic,but that was out of the best intention,to actually try and contribute to the grand idea,not specifically the smaller idea that Tuco contributed with.I'm trying to fulfill the grand picture that I have,with elements that were provided in the topic.If we do what was told here,we could lean towards what I recommended.At least towards some of suggestions,if not all.

That's actually a good idea, I would add let's ban every hacker or cheater that harms/have harmed the server, permanently, without a chance of reconsideration.

I completely agree with this.Why even abolish the culprits who willingly hacked and cheated here?If someone was auto-banned due to some technical problems,and without an intention to benefit from the hack,they should be reconsidered.But,letting the old,known cheaters return is not good.I do not trust their getting mature.They will do it again,most likely.Once you hack to score better than the others without playing fair-and-square,you're banned forever.That would be my politics here.

[Yash]

I bet Tuco is pissed as he gets rekt during the war because of his tag xD
PS. It's a bad suggestion. -1

[Tuco]

I bet Tuco is pissed as he gets rekt during the war because of his tag xD
PS. It's a bad suggestion. -1

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tuco]

30 players now, no terrorist following duty.

This morning at least two presidents disconnected due to the boredom: even with about 18-20 players, nobody was trying, so they just /q.

Probably they went to another server, whose title attracted them, and they probably spent the rest of the day there, having fun, because the ppl on that server were actually following the gamemode.

So, Jonne, if you are wondering why the server player's adquisition is so narrow, you have some more facts.

[Menace]

30 players now, no terrorist following duty.

This morning at least two presidents disconnected due to the boredom: even with about 18-20 players, nobody was trying, so they just /q.

Probably they went to another server, whose title attracted them, and they probably spent the rest of the day there, having fun, because the ppl on that server were actually following the gamemode.

So, Jonne, if you are wondering why the server player's adquisition is so narrow, you have some more facts.

Jonne should create anothet server for clan wars, the same blue and red classes figthing each other on the same maps.
Then the clans will play on that server and leave the original server with 10 or less players playing the gm. (SINCE U WANT THAT)

[EnGin]

We should do something with Civilian class. Half of the time, I see 5 civilians, 1 security and president.

[Finisher]

Real talk here, had it not been for Role play servers SA:MP would have been long gone. When it comes to other game modes you’re just lucky to still have a player base with all the new games out there, you can’t fix this problem, Role play is the dominant game mode and there’s no alternative that’s why it’s still going

Two of SA:MPs first and greatest game modes to ever exist and not even Plan B can compare to them are currently dead because there’s an alternative games. Just be happy Plan B is still alive, don’t complain

Also, don’t pressure Jonne, he’s done the impossible for this community

[Srex_Zangetsu]

Finisher,do you imply that roleplaying is essential to our server too?'Cuz I've been saying the same thing for some time.People should include more of it,and not just senseless shooting one group against the other.Plus we need to balance the numbers of players in each class even better.
As for me,I usually play as a defender and tend to avoid playing as a terrorist,so,that's why I use civilians at times.Who doesn't have a problem with playing certain classes should play as them,and not amass the number of civilians while there are only few cops/terrorists.

[YoMama]

As for me,I usually play as a defender...that's why I use civilians at times.Who doesn't have a problem with playing certain classes should play as them,and not amass the number of civilians while there are only few cops/terrorists.

There are three defending classes. The civilian class is not one of them. I agree with you that following the purpose/role of the class is important, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why you play as a "defender" civilian and consider that roleplay when the three defending classes exist and are much more effective for defense, while the role of civilians is undefined. It seems to me that if you really value roleplay, you should be playing as those defending classes and advocating limitations for the civilian class to encourage people to join the classes with defined roles-- correct me if I'm wrong.

I bet Tuco is pissed as he gets rekt during the war because of his tag xD
PS. It's a bad suggestion. -1

I hope you're being sarcastic. Your comment in the context of this topic is like a scene in which the adults are debating the ethics of warfare or something, and you're busy crapping your diaper in your high chair, trying to start a food fight.

A GgT complaining about clan wars. *Oh the irony*

What is the point of this comment? I've never understood why Tuco is in GgT, since he seems to exist outside of the clan, but that's beside the point. I have very little respect or patience for GgT or any of the clans at this point, but I do have a lot of respect for Tuco. He plays the GM more reliably than the great majority of the server, including you, from my experience. As of this post, you have played for 2511 hours, yet have only been President 22 times, out of which you survived twice. Even generously assuming that you survived for 14 minutes each time, you have played about 20 hours as President, or 0.8% of your time in the server.

A little snapshot of your kills/deaths looks like this:

[Rawr]Quido(95.05H, 7.6A) Terrorist      Carg_BiB Police
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      BLACK_VADER Civilian
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      Gustavo_316 Terrorist
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      Tefogc Civilian
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      (GERMANO)BR Terrorist

Not killing any regulars... just police. Then there's also the fact that when I think of you playing the game, it's hard not to think of you as a civilian, either killing random players or hanging out with a President friend and other civilians, killing his security and anyone coming to attack.

Meanwhile, there's Tuco, who, assuming an average length of 7 minutes for his presidencies, has spent more than 25% of his time playing as President and has a snapshot like this:

Tuco[GgT](95.05H, 100A) Security      karaka Terrorist
Tuco[GgT] President      
Tuco[GgT](100H, 100A) Security      [ThuG]ZORO Civilian
Tuco[GgT] Security      
[s2]notLions(100H, 100A) Terrorist      Tuco[GgT] Security

Fighting with regulars, different classes, just enjoying the gamemode. Playing as President isn't really compatible with the clan wars you mention, either.

I appreciate all you do for the server, Carg, and I know that as an admin, you can't focus as much on the gamemode. However, pretending that Tuco doesn't play the game just because he has a GgT tag, particularly coming from you, is something I don't appreciate.

...on the other hand, players like to do clan wars over playing the game mode. So this can also lead to loss of players.

I don't understand why there are still people who don't get this after the many years of me saying it: players who leave who don't play the gamemode aren't losses when it comes to real gameplay, because they aren't contributing to it. If there are 4 players actually playing the GM, it won't matter if the other 40 players leave or if they weren't there to begin with, unless they start playing the gamemode. However, the other 40 players will annoy the other 4 and drive them away, while meanwhile contributing absolutely nothing to convince new players who actually play the GM to stay here. The SA-MP market is saturated with TDM servers, but our little GM is pretty unique. It is by emphasizing and celebrating the GM that we will attract and retain new players. It's not just that  the gamemode is very fun when everyone is playing it-- without focusing on the GM, we're "just a TDM" with a somewhat toxic culture.

[Carg]

A GgT complaining about clan wars. *Oh the irony*

What is the point of this comment? I've never understood why Tuco is in GgT, since he seems to exist outside of the clan, but that's beside the point. I have very little respect or patience for GgT or any of the clans at this point, but I do have a lot of respect for Tuco. He plays the GM more reliably than the great majority of the server, including you, from my experience. As of this post, you have played for 2511 hours, yet have only been President 22 times, out of which you survived twice. Even generously assuming that you survived for 14 minutes each time, you have played about 20 hours as President, or 0.8% of your time in the server.

A little snapshot of your kills/deaths looks like this:

[Rawr]Quido(95.05H, 7.6A) Terrorist      Carg_BiB Police
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      BLACK_VADER Civilian
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      Gustavo_316 Terrorist
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      Tefogc Civilian
Carg_BiB(100H, 0A) Police      (GERMANO)BR Terrorist

Not killing any regulars... just police. Then there's also the fact that when I think of you playing the game, it's hard not to think of you as a civilian, either killing random players or hanging out with a President friend and other civilians, killing his security and anyone coming to attack.

Meanwhile, there's Tuco, who, assuming an average length of 7 minutes for his presidencies, has spent more than 25% of his time playing as President and has a snapshot like this:

Tuco[GgT](95.05H, 100A) Security      karaka Terrorist
Tuco[GgT] President      
Tuco[GgT](100H, 100A) Security      [ThuG]ZORO Civilian
Tuco[GgT] Security      
[s2]notLions(100H, 100A) Terrorist      Tuco[GgT] Security

Fighting with regulars, different classes, just enjoying the gamemode. Playing as President isn't really compatible with the clan wars you mention, either.

I appreciate all you do for the server, Carg, and I know that as an admin, you can't focus as much on the gamemode. However, pretending that Tuco doesn't play the game just because he has a GgT tag, particularly coming from you, is something I don't appreciate.

Ok first of all I do participate in those clan wars sometimes, because gamemode is really boring. Second get your math right. I have played 2511 hours from which 1256 hours I have spent on the civilian spawn afking or checking reports, I've spent hours every day for weeks checking regular hackers and trying to clear the server out of such so you don't have to deal with them. If you have ever seen me ingame, you would know that when I play the gamemode, I do kill everyone.

I don't like being president, since most of the times someone gets reported I'll have to check it and I can't do that while being president. But not just this, even before becoming admin I didn't like it being president, I always preferred to be police or security, sometimes terrorist. 90% of the times I choose to play the gamemode, I'm doing /sb to see hows the balance and choose the side with the least members in it.

From that snapshot of my kills/deaths you can clearly see I'm killing everyone close enough to the president, because I was protecting Mia while she was president in NSA map, we were in area 51 I lost my hydra and went inside. So just because I have only one regular in the snapshot you choose to post doesn't mean I'm not killing regulars, it means that there were only 2 regulars being terrorist and attacking the president while this was recorded. So I don't think you're being very objective about that.

[YoMama]

...just because I have only one regular in the snapshot you choose to post doesn't mean I'm not killing regulars, it means that there were only 2 regulars being terrorist and attacking the president while this was recorded. So I don't think you're being very objective about that.

Using the snapshot was pretty reasonable for Tuco, because it looks like his normal gameplay. However, you're right, using the snapshot for you is somewhat unreasonable, but what you just wrote is fair game.

Ok first of all I do participate in those clan wars sometimes, because gamemode is really boring.

You're an admin... of a server with a Protect the President gamemode. Maybe the gamemode is boring because no one else is playing it? It wasn't boring when most of the server actually followed the gamemode. It's a positive feedback loop-- the more people ignore the gamemode, the less interesting the gamemode is, so less people play the gamemode.

People can ignore the gamemode because nothing enforces /duty. You only get perks for following your duty. If there were a limit on the number of people who could ignore the gamemode as civilians, and if /duty were enforced, there wouldn't be anyone making the gamemode boring for everyone else. This would break the aforementioned positive feedback loop. You are someone who has the capacity to fix this.

I don't like being president, since most of the times someone gets reported I'll have to check it and I can't do that while being president. But not just this, even before becoming admin I didn't like it being president, I always preferred to be police or security, sometimes terrorist.

That's fair.

Second get your math right. I have played 2511 hours from which 1256 hours I have spent on the civilian spawn afking or checking reports, I've spent hours every day for weeks checking regular hackers and trying to clear the server out of such so you don't have to deal with them. If you have ever seen me ingame, you would know that when I play the gamemode, I do kill everyone.

I don't know if you're trying very hard to refute my argument, but if you say that half the time is either AFK or report time, that doubles the percentage of time you've spent as President to only 1.6%. That was the best way I could come up with actual numbers-- if you want better stats, then we should have the amount of time spent playing each class and player stats for each class in the CP. That would actually emphasize the importance of the gamemode. Either way, the amount of time you've spent playing as President is a ridiculously small percentage of your total playing time, particularly considering that you need to have bit of experience playing as President to be good at the gamemode. I don't like playing as police or SWAT, but I know I've spent much more than around 0.8-1.6% of my time playing all the classes, regardless.

I understand that you're checking reports and dealing with rulebreakers, but the point is, I feel that you have no grounds to be questioning Tuco's dedication to the gamemode when I pretty much only see him playing the gamemode. Additionally, he's spent 25% of his time in the game (more or less) playing as the one class that defines the fucking gamemode. He's a nice person, follows the rules, and cares about this server and the gamemode. This topic shows that. Don't be a dick just because he happens to have a tag from what is possibly the most toxic clan in the server.

[Ahsoka_Tano]

This is a suggestion not a Discussion.
U gone from Remove Players nicknames to who is doing what

I like the idea but i dont like not being able to see cops and secs names as good guys and switched.

[Srex_Zangetsu]

There are three defending classes. The civilian class is not one of them. I agree with you that following the purpose/role of the class is important, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why you play as a "defender" civilian and consider that roleplay when the three defending classes exist and are much more effective for defense, while the role of civilians is undefined. It seems to me that if you really value roleplay, you should be playing as those defending classes and advocating limitations for the civilian class to encourage people to join the classes with defined roles-- correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes,I understand that the civilians can be pretty unpredictable unless they're known players,but...my reason for not playing as a "defender" is always unavailability to join them.The balance,so to say.Whenever I cannot join them,I go join the civilian class in order to help them.But,some do not appreciate that,and attack me without a reason,although I'm a known defender to whoever is a normal person on the server.I'd somehow make it punishable for those retards to attack civilians without a reason.If there were,like I said,two separate civilian classes (with neutral third),ones who would defend,and ones who would attack,and if their allies were not able to attack them,we'd stop the "statswhoring" problem,and making lame excuses for shooting civilians.
So,my only reason for being a civilian at times is my policy to avoid playing as a terrorist.You can judge it all you want,but I don't really want to play as a villain,unless someone really wants to piss me off or the balance is heavily tipped to one side.
By the way,where are you,YoMama?Haven't seen you play in a while...