Gameplay improvements

[Ahsoka_Tano]

I agree with you, it's a big problem, and I don't know how to solve it properly. I don't like the radical solution of removing or nerfing the class either.

How is disabling vip weapons ( sniper and chainsaw) from the class not a solution?
I dont get it

[Altus_Demens]

How is demolishing a house with a dirty word written on its wall not a solution to increase the speech culture level?

What you suggest, might work, but it will rather erase the whole class from the gamemode. My suggestion is an attempt to save it without leaving it as imbalanced as it is for today,

[Srex_Zangetsu]

Carg pls f off with /rc, not always is that option available. And I don't like playing as a terrorist.
If the civilians were divided into the allied/hostile classes,then that wouldn't ruin the balance.
If the game is balanced,I won't be able to join as friendly civ and then i'll just play as a neutral civ and go around while nobody can harm me.
And that would also solve the civilian gang-up problem,wherein they can limitlessly join civs and gang-up on a certain class.
SWAT should be removed or another terro class be made. One that can spawn with armor so it can counter the existence of "security" class.
Also,autobalance would be good,but I disagree about the last player switching sides being forced to leave.What's the criteria with that?It's just discrimination.All players of the team with advantage should be given 15 seconds to switch sides manually. I fnobody changes,then a random player should be given a pop-up with a choice to either change to the opposite side or go neutral civilian class.

[Ahsoka_Tano]

What you suggest, might work, but it will rather erase the whole class from the gamemode. My suggestion is an attempt to save it without leaving it as imbalanced as it is for today,

The class will always be for:
- Exploring a certain map for anything (tactics new places etc)
- racing, dueling, being afk or chatting.
- Having fun by driving around and making some stunts
- And maybe trying to help out one of the sides (bad or good)
So the class will never die out.
If somebody wants to play the gamemode then civilian is not the class for it, they dont even recieve score.

[YoMama]

There are some ways to kill a president in shamal and a president flying a rustler will be OP if a good player pilots it but if a newbie president use a rustler [they always try to get one] he will die easily.

Hey, here's a novel idea-- how about listening to the best pilots in the server when they tell you it's not OP? How about looking at all the other servers that treat Rustlers as normal vehicles? If the president kills himself immediately in a plane, he probably wasn't long for this world anyway.

There's very few people with enough motivation to try to catch up with a president in a Rustler.

That's not a Rustler problem; that's a culture problem. One person can usually take out a flying President anyway.

The president shouldn't be a combat unit on themself.

Glad you agree, when are we getting rid of /holiday eng and VIP weapons for the president? Any time you get over two people chasing a pilot of any skill level they're not in "combat unit" mode, they're in holy shit survival mode. If they're smart, they're probably looking for an escape on the ground.

Besides, the tactics which do not imply the help of the securities, shouldn't exist, IMHO. Otherwise, what's the purpose of the securities?

Quit with the bullshit. Everyone here knows that securities can easily help a flying president, and you of all people know that a president is far from invincible in a plane. If the securities aren't protecting, that's a separate issue and certainly not limited to planes.

I don't like the radical solution of removing or nerfing the class either. However, I've got some thoughts:

• Forbid civilians to team up with anyone but the other civilians both by adding a rule and game mechanic improvements;
• Remove the civilian spawns completely. Instead, let each civilian spawn at a random point of the map (possibly - spawn them high in the air and give a parachute).

This will both fix the balance issue (civilians won't be allowed to idle next to the presi/terrorists and surf their cars) and constant fights near the civilian spawns.

It's not a radical solution; it's how the civilian class always was, until regulars started to consider it a sandbox. You always were fighting to stay alive as a civilian in the past; all you had was a desert eagle and lag shooting. It was a compromise-- you gained the ability to attack anyone in exchange for being constantly attacked and killed by nearly everyone. Just because Tenshi turned the civilian class into a steaming pile of shit a long time ago doesn't mean we have to keep smelling it. Your suggestions are non-starters without getting rid of their access to VIP weapons.

I don't think holiday eng is real problem. I like weapons to be diverse. More diversity implies more imagination, different tactics and fun.

Grenades and spray cans bring more diversity, more tactics to the game, sometimes allowing to win desperate fights.

Translation: a command that lets you either blow people up make them helplessly frozen in a few seconds, and only the regulars know it. I still think those items should go back to being pickups that are obviously marked. I don't mind grenades, but in a server where the major theme is running, being able to freeze someone with a command seems a little OP.

I would also remove the ability to ride bicycles, unless there is a way to make them destroyable.

I agree

Civilians ruin everything. I don’t care how long your reply is, it’s the truth.

Kill the cancer (or at least control it); save the patient. It's one of the many things that are hostile to newbies and benefit regulars.

[Altus_Demens]

That's not a Rustler problem; that's a culture problem. One person can usually take out a flying President anyway.

I kinda agree with you. Whilst I don't question your personal effort of popularizing rustlers (your signature), how much did it help? I mean, what is the percentage of players affected to your (positive) propaganda? Not too big. So you can blame lazy players or culture, or anything, the truth is that the amount of players capable of "usually taking out a flying YoMama" is very low.

By the way, I think it's a big problem: the forum and everything related to it is too far away from a common newcommer. The most important things, discussions, decision pass them by.

Glad you agree, when are we getting rid of /holiday eng and VIP weapons for the president?

I don't know if you were sarcastic, but removing VIP weapons for the president sounds like a good idea. But not removing /holiday eng. A spray can and 3 grenades are the weapons of the last resort.

Quit with the bullshit. Everyone here knows that securities can easily help a flying president, and you of all people know that a president is far from invincible in a plane. If the securities aren't protecting, that's a separate issue and certainly not limited to planes.

I didn't say that it is limited to planes. But yeah, they rarely keep up.

It's not a radical solution; it's how the civilian class always was, until regulars started to consider it a sandbox. You always were fighting to stay alive as a civilian in the past; all you had was a desert eagle and lag shooting. It was a compromise-- you gained the ability to attack anyone in exchange for being constantly attacked and killed by nearly everyone. Just because Tenshi turned the civilian class into a steaming pile of shit a long time ago doesn't mean we have to keep smelling it. Your suggestions are non-starters without getting rid of their access to VIP weapons.

Honestly, it doesn't matter for me how it was in the past. I am struggling to find a way how to leave the class and fully integrate it in the gamemode without screwing up the balance.
My vision of a perfect civilian class is like the following: it should be a group of psychos who run across the map, bring chaos and act like vultures at the battlefield, harming both sides. That's how I try to play and that's how I want to see it.

The class will always be for:
- Exploring a certain map for anything (tactics new places etc)
- racing, dueling, being afk or chatting.
- Having fun by driving around and making some stunts
- And maybe trying to help out one of the sides (bad or good)
So the class will never die out.
If somebody wants to play the gamemode then civilian is not the class for it, they dont even recieve score.

Also that's the reason I definitely don't want to see the civilian class like that. It will decisively split up the players into two groups, one playing the gamemode and the other chilling and "sandboxing".

Translation: a command that lets you either blow people up make them helplessly frozen in a few seconds, and only the regulars know it. I still think those items should go back to being pickups that are obviously marked. I don't mind grenades, but in a server where the major theme is running, being able to freeze someone with a command seems a little OP.

Grenades can only be OP if they are thrown by a dozen of securities at the narrow entrance of yet another president's camping spot.
As for spray cans... They are mostly used to effectively counter that evil VIPs' chainsaw. I don't find it overpowered.

[Srex_Zangetsu]

I agree on president being able to fly Shamal,it'd be fun and not invincible either.Plus it's meaningful,flying in a fancy airplane,like a president should.

I don't think /holiday eng options should be completely removed.Instead,how about everyone spawn with 2-3 grenades each time they join/die?Spraycan is kinda crap,if it's present in the game then the extinguisher should be too. INSTEAD! How about we introduce remote explosive pickups or smth? They're challenging to use properly,and would require tactical thinking to make the best use out of them. But,of course,not too many. One-two per person.

I also think,if people complain about VIP weapons,why don't we remove sniper and saw completely? Everyone could have the rifle,or just VIPs,and all players would be able to choose any melee weapons for themselves at will and make it /favmelee or smth,and we could also get brass knuckles for fun.Yeah,katana would stop being a VIP weapon then.

And how about we get ejection for most aircrafts instead of just Rustler?Maybe even certain cars?Presidential car?

[Altus_Demens]

INSTEAD! How about we introduce remote explosive pickups or smth? They're challenging to use properly,and would require tactical thinking to make the best use out of them. But,of course,not too many. One-two per person.

Whilst it is a good idea, I am afraid that satchel charges are not synced in SAMP.

I also think,if people complain about VIP weapons,why don't we remove sniper and saw completely?

If there is a way to adjust and balance something, I am against removing it. Otherwise... If the majority thinks that civilians should not be able to use sniper and chainsaw, I'd stick it to removing it completely.

all players would be able to choose any melee weapons for themselves at will and make it /favmelee or smth,and we could also get brass knuckles for fun.Yeah,katana would stop being a VIP weapon then.

And how about we get ejection for most aircrafts instead of just Rustler?Maybe even certain cars?Presidential car?

Good ideas, +1. As for the ejection, I am not sure if any cars should have it. But helis definitely should - it's hardly possible to escape from a burning heli.

Anyways, let's stick to discussing MegaPilot's suggestions. Or Jonne will have hard time trying to extract anything from this topic.


I had a talk with Carg and he kindly suggested some improvements to my ideas.

The civilians can spawn in some kind of a lobby without any restrictions, but also without weapons and access to the game world. They can duel, race or idle, as they usually do. There should also be a "portal" to the game world; it will apply the restrictions I suggested earlier, so it won't let anyone in if more than 30-40% of players are civilians in the game world. Those passing through the portal will spawn at random points in the skies with para.

Also, the autobalance feature I suggested earlier can turn dangerous if a pilot of the rustlers carrying the president gets reclassed, for example. So it would be better just to throw the members of the overpowered team to the class selection menu after their death.

[LPCOLTER]

Being a Civilian = Simp

truth speaks for itself

[Srex_Zangetsu]

INSTEAD! How about we introduce remote explosive pickups or smth? They're challenging to use properly,and would require tactical thinking to make the best use out of them. But,of course,not too many. One-two per person.

Whilst it is a good idea, I am afraid that satchel charges are not synced in SAMP.

I also think,if people complain about VIP weapons,why don't we remove sniper and saw completely?

If there is a way to adjust and balance something, I am against removing it. Otherwise... If the majority thinks that civilians should not be able to use sniper and chainsaw, I'd stick it to removing it completely.

all players would be able to choose any melee weapons for themselves at will and make it /favmelee or smth,and we could also get brass knuckles for fun.Yeah,katana would stop being a VIP weapon then.

And how about we get ejection for most aircrafts instead of just Rustler?Maybe even certain cars?Presidential car?

Good ideas, +1. As for the ejection, I am not sure if any cars should have it. But helis definitely should - it's hardly possible to escape from a burning heli.

Anyways, let's stick to discussing MegaPilot's suggestions. Or Jonne will have hard time trying to extract anything from this topic.


I had a talk with Carg and he kindly suggested some improvements to my ideas.

The civilians can spawn in some kind of a lobby without any restrictions, but also without weapons and access to the game world. They can duel, race or idle, as they usually do. There should also be a "portal" to the game world; it will apply the restrictions I suggested earlier, so it won't let anyone in if more than 30-40% of players are civilians in the game world. Those passing through the portal will spawn at random points in the skies with para.

Also, the autobalance feature I suggested earlier can turn dangerous if a pilot of the rustlers carrying the president gets reclassed, for example. So it would be better just to throw the members of the overpowered team to the class selection menu after their death.

So,when can we expect these changes?

[Carg]

INSTEAD! How about we introduce remote explosive pickups or smth? They're challenging to use properly,and would require tactical thinking to make the best use out of them. But,of course,not too many. One-two per person.

Whilst it is a good idea, I am afraid that satchel charges are not synced in SAMP.

I also think,if people complain about VIP weapons,why don't we remove sniper and saw completely?

If there is a way to adjust and balance something, I am against removing it. Otherwise... If the majority thinks that civilians should not be able to use sniper and chainsaw, I'd stick it to removing it completely.

all players would be able to choose any melee weapons for themselves at will and make it /favmelee or smth,and we could also get brass knuckles for fun.Yeah,katana would stop being a VIP weapon then.

And how about we get ejection for most aircrafts instead of just Rustler?Maybe even certain cars?Presidential car?

Good ideas, +1. As for the ejection, I am not sure if any cars should have it. But helis definitely should - it's hardly possible to escape from a burning heli.

Anyways, let's stick to discussing MegaPilot's suggestions. Or Jonne will have hard time trying to extract anything from this topic.


I had a talk with Carg and he kindly suggested some improvements to my ideas.

The civilians can spawn in some kind of a lobby without any restrictions, but also without weapons and access to the game world. They can duel, race or idle, as they usually do. There should also be a "portal" to the game world; it will apply the restrictions I suggested earlier, so it won't let anyone in if more than 30-40% of players are civilians in the game world. Those passing through the portal will spawn at random points in the skies with para.

Also, the autobalance feature I suggested earlier can turn dangerous if a pilot of the rustlers carrying the president gets reclassed, for example. So it would be better just to throw the members of the overpowered team to the class selection menu after their death.

So,when can we expect these changes?

In about two years

[Singh]

INSTEAD! How about we introduce remote explosive pickups or smth? They're challenging to use properly,and would require tactical thinking to make the best use out of them. But,of course,not too many. One-two per person.

Whilst it is a good idea, I am afraid that satchel charges are not synced in SAMP.

I also think,if people complain about VIP weapons,why don't we remove sniper and saw completely?

If there is a way to adjust and balance something, I am against removing it. Otherwise... If the majority thinks that civilians should not be able to use sniper and chainsaw, I'd stick it to removing it completely.

all players would be able to choose any melee weapons for themselves at will and make it /favmelee or smth,and we could also get brass knuckles for fun.Yeah,katana would stop being a VIP weapon then.

And how about we get ejection for most aircrafts instead of just Rustler?Maybe even certain cars?Presidential car?

Good ideas, +1. As for the ejection, I am not sure if any cars should have it. But helis definitely should - it's hardly possible to escape from a burning heli.

Anyways, let's stick to discussing MegaPilot's suggestions. Or Jonne will have hard time trying to extract anything from this topic.


I had a talk with Carg and he kindly suggested some improvements to my ideas.

The civilians can spawn in some kind of a lobby without any restrictions, but also without weapons and access to the game world. They can duel, race or idle, as they usually do. There should also be a "portal" to the game world; it will apply the restrictions I suggested earlier, so it won't let anyone in if more than 30-40% of players are civilians in the game world. Those passing through the portal will spawn at random points in the skies with para.

Also, the autobalance feature I suggested earlier can turn dangerous if a pilot of the rustlers carrying the president gets reclassed, for example. So it would be better just to throw the members of the overpowered team to the class selection menu after their death.

So,when can we expect these changes?

Never.No One Focus these suggestions  these are just useless, we are just wasting our time.

[Specifer]

First all discussions have a meaning and none is wasteful if no one listens . The changes we ask are healthy for gameplay but the script of our convenience makes the game more susceptible to bugs which is in need of bug testing and resolving .it is accomplishable but mods(scripters) don't want to take it in hand since it's better this way (as they think ) .But for now the maximum civilian list should be modified .

[swagger]

+1

[YoMama]

Honestly, it doesn't matter for me how it was in the past. I am struggling to find a way how to leave the class and fully integrate it in the gamemode without screwing up the balance.

This is a curious statement. I just gave you my historical perspective on how the balance was screwed up, but you simultaneously dismiss it and say you're struggling with how to fix it?

Quit with the bullshit. Everyone here knows that securities can easily help a flying president, and you of all people know that a president is far from invincible in a plane. If the securities aren't protecting, that's a separate issue and certainly not limited to planes.

I didn't say that it is limited to planes. But yeah, they rarely keep up.

Then you can't use that an argument against letting the President fly. To do otherwise is dishonest.

Whilst I don't question your personal effort of popularizing rustlers (your signature), how much did it help? I mean, what is the percentage of players affected to your (positive) propaganda? Not too big.

How the hell do you know? I certainly don't pretend to know how many people have taken more of an interest in Rustlers, but I can tell you that I had two people following me around/chatting with me yesterday because of my guide, and I hadn't played in months. I had other questions about planes that I couldn't have dreamed about before the guide. From a cursory look, it's at least one of the most, if not the most-viewed topics on this form that isn't stickied or off-topic. I'm pretty disappointed that you so confidently say something like that with absolutely no evidence to back it up, in spite of obvious and easily-accessible evidence to the contrary.

... the truth is that the amount of players capable of "usually taking out a flying YoMama" is very low.

I hereby define "YoMama's law"-- that any discussion about aircraft in this community will inevitably devolve into people who don't know much about them bringing up good pilots as a (bullshit) counterargument. This is in spite of the fact that bringing them up as counterarguments invalidates their point somewhat-- if their assertion that there are a only few good pilots is true, then it's probably a pretty fair fight for the vast majority of people.

Again, I'm pretty disappointed that you can be so arrogant. You're telling me that you know better than I do how difficult it is for me to survive when flying. Sure, when you've got one person vs someone like me, chances are I will come out on top, but I've written here time and time again that adding just one person against me makes it significantly more difficult for me. When I see two planes coming at me, I get to the ground if my security has been shot down. If you're the President, the whole point is that many people are chasing you at a time-- I don't fly for long, if at all, as President for this reason.

I'm tired of being a broken record here. I've spent more than 10% of my time playing this game successfully surviving as President ((303*.25hr)=75, 75/645 hrs). I've failed as President 300 times, we'll conservatively assume that those runs are 6 minutes long. That means I've spent 105/645 hrs, or around 15% of my time in this game, playing as the President. That's just in this server. You, by contrast, have survived as President 8 times, for two of your 1600 hours; you've died 94 times; using the same assumptions that's 9.4 hours for 11.4 hours of Presidential play in total. That's less than 1% of your total time and a little more than a tenth of the time I've played as President. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I may have a little more experience playing as President than you do, as well as a lot more flying experience. You certainly have plenty of experience chasing the President, which includes chasing me, but I've always been surprised to see you claiming things that games we've played together usually contradict. My suggestion for you is to find some evidence that you didn't pull out of your ass, then reenter this debate. Better yet, learn to fly better, play as the President more, gain some perspective, then reenter this debate. This world needs less people who expect to be taken seriously simply because they're overconfident, not more of them.