Author Topic: Knights and knaves  (Read 14804 times)

Offline Finisher

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2020, 01:48:36 pm »
What if it was someone else using the cleo skin changer, wouldn’t these two have had acted the complete opposite? Allowing this mod wasn’t necessarily, if anything, just change your appearance without the need to use a cleo to reflect a skin you’re not actually using in your screen. It will most likely act similar to health hacking if there’s a tiny size difference, if hit in body parts that aren’t the same in your screen. Wasn’t that the reason that crashes.asi had been prohibited (possibly not taking damage in certain scenarios)? The same applies to this.

And I’ve noticed that Mia uses a modified beta skin with ID 192’s txd/dff + cleo skinchanger. So double modified skin

There’s 300+ skins to choose from, I can’t think of anything else to say. Stop exaggerating everything in this game/server, a lot of the player base hate playing because of your doing, get your shit together

« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 01:50:35 pm by Finisha »

Offline Great_Khali

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2020, 01:57:55 pm »
It's good when everything is clearly black or white. When there are knights and knaves. Elves and orcs. Adherents of true faith and filthy pagans.

Bla bla bla ....

We get that Mia is your friend & you blindly trust her ,

so Altus tell me, does that mod give even 0.00001% advantage or not ?

if yes - you are covering her for her mistakes & protecting an abuser.

We don't hate you or Mia , we don't wanna get you killed IRL or get demoted

All we want is Her to apologize to all members for being an unfair staff member by abusing this time .
Instead of apologizing she is arrogant that level 5's n jonne allowed it etc while she knew its advantages.

Jonne can keep her as staff or promote her to level 5 , that's none of our concern.

Just cut the crappy cock n bull stories & face the truth instead.

@Mia - this topic is about "YOU" so better give explanations instead of blaming others for using mods / hacks, You are a staff member - just ban players using illegal mods instead of diverting the topic here.

Toggle of that mod at 00:08  is what worries me as saurabh pointed - you both are never giving answers & that is fishy .

Offline IceBreaker

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2020, 03:23:48 pm »
As someone who plays clean, there are cheaters all around and it's tolerated for some reason. People using c-bugs killing people, get kicked, join back, killing people with c-bug again, which means it's basically allowed. For some reason people run faster and move faster.

Everyone here who uses faster skin has an advantage over a newbie and is a cheater himself and no higher on the moral order than Mia.

Unless all this shit that gives advantage over a newbie is disallowed, people will compete to find loopholes and mods that will make them better

Mia spelled backwards is Aim, this warrants demotion

Offline LuCa

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2020, 03:30:10 pm »
forbid all of these modifications that gives advantages and remove the shitty fast skins too

Offline Yan

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2020, 04:23:39 pm »
As we already said your administrator team is ruining the community

Offline Finisher

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2020, 06:43:00 pm »
As we already said your administrator team is ruining the community

I don't imagine Friauf/Fimpen would've allowed such thing, and (I'm not saying Nikola and Quido are bad), it's just they were really strict when it comes to modifications and cleos that are actually suspicious. They would have replied something similar to this "A normal skin is a normal, you can't modify it and make it a beta skin, you want a beta skin then use a damn beta skin" why would anyone question the fact that modding skins is always suspicious? let alone modifying a beta skin into another skin that does not have the same size %100. And the Staff are most likely divided about it, not only the players, what the hell is going on? Why is it necessary to exaggerate every single thing? as a community that is supposed to have respected Staff team we're getting a divided Staff team, we're over the Surfing thing and now we're on this crap. And the longer this crap goes, the community is losing it's players who are sick and tired of two bitch-like behaving morons having everything their way somehow
 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 06:50:09 pm by Finisha »

Offline COBRA

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2020, 07:34:28 pm »
Wow Altus, you gave all examples on me. But your examples are really non-related to eachother which you used in the same sentence.

You just made it worst Altus, you trying to brainwash people by giving some quotes from old times which has no clue about today's tricky two-faced staff did to gain advantage on players for a long time. It is sad but I agree with my ingame enemies in this topic. (like as you gave an example on your post, they were my enemies as you can see on quotes).

Even I agree with my enemies on this topic because you both Mia & Altus, kept killing us for a LONG LONG time and keeping it secret, toggling on/off with the skin moves and visual skin hacks. I was wondering how were you able to avoid sniper shots against 6 guys vs you both. Now I can see that was not about being "pro", but that was about being "pro toggling".

I agree with you all in this topic who still trying to find some justice because got killed unfairly ingame for A YEAR LONG by secretly game mods. Those people are mad, not because you are admin or moderator. People are mad just because you tricked them for a long time and kept it secret, by toggling it on sometimes to gain advantage on them. You better know that it has REALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING "ADMIN KNIGHT".

It is all about being HONEST. Not only demotion you deserve, You deserve punishment for this tricky hacks with BAN. Fucking old admins.. We need them back. Fuck this shitty staff playing tricky, untrustworthy against players. How the fuck this can happen?

This is not the first, not the second or third. Do we have to make a list for those staff mistakes? We need warning level for staff also. And I think Mia already got the golden medal by taking all warnings..

You just proved how wrong you both were up there Altus, good job!


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Offline Nikola

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2020, 08:58:48 pm »
I see there's a misunderstanding about what level 5 admins' powers and duties actually are, so I'll try to clarify. The majority of final decisions on this server regarding the management of the server, be it implementation of updates and rules or promotion/demotion of admins and mods, are made by the level 5 team, including Jonne. Quido and I closely discuss with him issues like those mentioned above, based on our own opinions and the opinions of other staff members and the community in general. This is done to ensure that decisions are made by accounting different views and perspectives from multiple members of the community, and not just the opinions of decision-makers.

Members of the community usually compare how the staff works now to how it worked on the original server, during Tenshi's times. Admins there undoubtedly had more freedom in determining what actions to take in a wide array of situations. However, this had a nasty side effect, wherein admins could very easily make rash decisions or, even worse, abuse the players and the server rules for their own amusement. It was like this even back in 2010/2011 and, from what I hear, it hadn't changed one bit before the old server ceased to exist. But, this is not how the Plan B admin team functions, level 5 admins included.

So, the most obvious upside of Plan B's server management style is that everyone can state their views and opinions on any issue they see fit, no matter how far or close that issue might be to their "jurisdiction" on the server. However, decisions can sometimes be quickly made if a certain issue isn't perceived to be serious. When that happens, miscalculations are bound to happen more often.

This had an effect on Jonne deciding whether to allow Mia's mod or not. He believed that the mod was not a big deal and decided to allow it, without consulting either of the level 5's. There is no hidden agenda or toxic friendships to encourage admin abuse, as some would like to believe. There's simply a side-effect of Plan B's management system's periodical inclination to resolve certain issues prematurely. This is why I have always personally believed that there should be a "division of labor" when it comes to server management, with multiple people being able to make final decisions in separate aspects of server management. This would surely mean a smaller number of misjudgements. But, once again, Jonne is the sole owner of the server and I will respect his decision on server management, even if I don't agree with it.

As he stated in another topic, the community's overwhelmingly negative opinion of the aforementioned modification will be taken into account, which means that it will highly likely be disallowed.

Also, I strongly disagree with the attitude of the original post. Making issues personal will almost never lead to constructive discussions.




« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 10:08:40 pm by Nikola »

Offline Bully

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2020, 09:18:00 pm »
These are some wise words from @nikola ..i  feel this pretty much sums up Everything . What's done is done!! ...even i was under wrong impression that the Mia's mod wasn't such a big deal compared to amount of people making hue and cry .

I suppose jonne should now take up a final decision over this  and also should initiate a list of categories / arena where modifications are allowed to avoid future ambiguities and confusion.

Offline Altus_Demens

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2020, 12:58:14 am »
Yes, I did exaggerate things in the original post. The situation which we are currently in is absurdous, and the best way to show it is to "reverse" the absurd, which is what I have done. Niko is right, however, it's time to put the emotions aside and go constructive.

What is going on now is a model witch-hunting. At first, Mia was reported for using fastped.cs. I think that most of the players (including me) were not aware that this mod does even exist. As much as I understood, it makes all turns instant, which is obviously far more than using a fast skin. At this point I understand the wrath of the community. If Mia used it, she would have gotten demoted and banned for the hack classified as Tier 2.

However, both Mia and Jonne explained what mod Mia actually used. She also posted a link to it. Did it stop the witch-hunting? No, it continued with renewed vigor. There were so many accusations regarding this mod which have nothing to do with reality. The worst thing is that it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Any player could download the mod by Mia's link and check whether what they're accusing us for is true or not.

Let me summarize everything regarding this situation in a small FAQ:

Q: This is fastped.cs, and I've seen in the video that it makes characters rotate like in a whirlpool!
A: This is not the same mod, this one is called skinchanger.cs. It does the following: it simply replaces the skin which is given to you by the server (let's call it S1), to any other skin available in the game (let's call it S2). The change happens after tying the client command: /fskin [skin id] So you see S2 while everyone still sees S1.
The fast skin trick is the following. Imagine that you want your favourite skin, in my case 73, to turn like a fast skin (for example, 272). In GTA3.img, you replace the .txd (texture) and .dff (model) files of the skin 272 to those of the skin 73. After that, you go ingame. The server gives you your normal skin (in my case, 73). Then you use /fskin 272, so your local skin is 272. But since you replaced the texture and the model of the skin 272 to skin 73, you keep seeing your old skin (and everyone else do), but the ped movements, which are used, belong to the skin 272. That's the only thing this mod makes.

Q: What you've described gives an unfair advantage and should be classified as a hack.
A: Formally, you are right. The hitboxes of many slow skins are smaller than those of fast skins. However, the difference between the hitboxes is very small, so there is just no way to abuse the "advantage". There is no need to believe my words, you can try it yourself and you'll see: there is no magic, it will not help you in a real fight at all, utterly and completely.
Sniper crosshair with a smaller dot, for example, is widely used and gives an obvious advantage: the accuracy of sniping on long distances increases drastically. The default big red dot can cover the whole target on long distances, whilst a small and neat one allows you to hit precisely: for example, in a car, in a rustler, behind the obstacle in a very small bodypart, and so on. I use the custom crosshair myself and I can simply explain the advantage. However, I fail to explain that of the skin changer mod.
Thus, there is no point in using this mod in other purposes but the aesthetics.

Q: Mia did it silently, because she was afraid of getting caught.
A: This is simply not true. First of all, she consulted with the owner of the server before using it. Second, it is clearly visible on her video. Third, it's quite natural that she did not announce it publicly: many players here do not really announce their discoveries (custom crosshairs) and don't share them on request.

Q: If it was some regular player, Jonne would not have allowed it.
A: Again, this is simply not true. Mia and I does not have any extra influence on Jonne. If you think that it's so simple, go and try to do it yourself. I doubt that Jonne handles this server for anything else but fun of the players, for the feeling of him doing something good and truly interesting and pleasant for the others. In this case, I don't see a way of a random person in the Internet influencing on his decision just like that.

Q: If it was somebody else, you, Altus, would have forbidden this mod and/or banned the user.
A: Once again, wrong. When I am an online admin, people sometimes ask me whether a given mod is allowed or not. I always reply with the same thing: the mod is allowed unless it gives an unfair advantage. For example, I have not done anything for those who used a mod which allows to reload the weapons or a mod which lets you apply custom ped animations (equal to those available ingame) from the client side. Anyone who talked to me about the mods, knows that I stick to this principle, and I do not plan to step over it.

Q: Why don't you simply use /vskin?
A: I thought that it would be cool to have my favourite skin, 73, rotating like a fast skin, since I am a VIP and have access to the fast skins anyways. Even if the skinchanger.cs gets disallowed, I will keep playing with the 73th skin (slow), as it is the only skin I like.

Q: You are lying or omitting something about this mod.
A: As I said, there is no need to believe me nakedly. Use the mod and check it yourself. I told you everything I know about it. We used it only for the aesthetic purposes.

Q: I do not believe in your "aesthetic" purposes. There must have been something else involved.
A: Like, what? Mia and I stay away from the game-related conflicts of the players and clans. We do not fight personally with anyone. We do not post humiliation videos or stories. We are fighting everyone and do it solely for the fun. And we lose a big percent of the fights. I am not any kind of a "pro"-gamer, I mostly play to relax. So it's not to assert ourselves. What else can it be? To farm score/kills? Well, there are way more effective ways, like to constantly survive as a president on specific maps with specific players online.
Besides, I was telling about giving all of my score away... Why not? Jonne, I request you to transfer 22000 of my kills to the 22 best players on the server, 1000 for each. Seriously, I would prefer if there were no stats. Like there is no karma on this forum. Unfortunately, these numbers mostly bring unnecessary fights and grudges.



What I'm going to say next, applies to everyone taking part in the war which started from Mive's resignation, it also applies to myself and Mia.

I had private talks with many of you, people. The vast majority of those talks were pleasant, interesting, entertaining for me and, hopefully, to my conversationalists as well. Yet... We ended up here.

I will mention COBRA and Great_Khali a lot below. Don't take it as an offense, please, as I will do it solely because they are very old and influential players and owners of the biggest and eldest (for the moment) clans (= virtual communities) of Plan B.

As I told a lot of times and I repeat now, there are no truly "shitty persons" on this server. At least I have met none. Some of us prefer to trash talk, others stay silent. Some of us find the dignity in a knighty (no more irony in this word!) attitude ingame, others prefer to kill everyone or target specific people, or follow their own ways of having fun. Some of us are easy to annoy, others are impenetratable. It doesn't matter.

What matters, is that we all are wrong here. We all tend to think that we are somewhat more than we actually are. Or at least we want to look better for both ourselves and others. That's the first thing. The second one, we all belong to our Plan B society. We all are bound to the other people around with hundreds of threads, so it's natural that we follow them in the games.

So, some of us utilize a slightest reason to wind the spring and get the adrenaline.
Others go help them because they cannot betray their friends (and not joining the conflict on their side looks like a treason for them).
The third ones try to enforce their authority and also to settle the score with someone for the past offenses, since they give a brilliant reason for it.

Reasons, reasons, reasons... Let us not utilize the reasons. Let us look deeper in ourselves, in our consciousness, all of our actions are rooted there.

Let us not give reasons for the reasons.

Let us not patronize the others. Let us not be high hats. Nobody. Neither those who want to show their independence against those who currently holds the admin buttons. Nor those who rushes to use these buttons.

I used to be a part of another relatively big Internet community. The biggest difference of it from PTP lied in the fact that most of the people there could stop any hassle at any moment, because they remembered the main thing: this all is a game.

So whenever I was involved in a conflict, I always knew that I could reach my opponent out at any moment. That we could come to the table and find a solution even for the most difficult situation. Can we say this regarding to each other? Mia and I and COBRA and Great_Khali?

Whenever we accuse or defend someone (= we try to get justice), we should ask ourselves: at which extent are our own ambitions involved?

Personally I am involved too, of course. However, for some reason I get way less criticism than Mia, so what I am trying to achieve here is not to criticise, in my turn, everyone, starting from myself and Mia and ending with COBRA and Great_Khali, and name us all idiots. Not at all, although, again, everyone is wrong here. And I am really sorry for the irritation caused by my first post in this topic.

I want to suggest a solution to end this midget war. At least to try to make this server and this forum a pleasant place to spend our time on.

I suggest a status quo ante bellum, which is:
  • All topics related to the war are getting closed, but not removed, to remain a good lesson for the future.
  • Now and forever: all decisions about allowed/disallowed mods are to be taken by 3 Head Admins (with other level 4 admins as consulting body) and are announced publicly, in some topic, no matter if they were asked publicly and privately about the given mod. If Head Admins are having trouble making it, the question is getting solved on the forums, by a voting. By mods, I mean not just .cs/.asi files, but any other external modifications of the game, including: tools to unlock/limit FPS; ping force software; custom skins; custom textures, crosshairs, transparent leaves and so on.
  • Even if the community decides to forbid a mod, no retrospective punishments are applied. Let us all remember that everyone of us did something good for the server. If it wasn't for COBRA and Great_Khali, we wouldn't simply have probably reached the 14th year of PTP existance. If it wasn't for Mia, we wouldn't have had a handful of nice updates.
  • No punishments and/or other admin actions are applied in the situations which are not described in the rules: clearly, unequivocally and recognizably (@popcornZ' case). If such situation happens, it is getting discussed either among the Staff or publicly on the forum and, again, no retroactive punishments are applied, to nobody.

For last, I want to ask everyone, but primarily COBRA and Great_Khali: under what conditions are you ready to coexist with Mia and me here peacefully? I am talking about our personalities, not ingame fights.
A paltry man and poor of mind
At all things ever mocks;
For never he knows, what he ought to know,
That he is not free from faults.

Offline Chetan

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2020, 02:59:39 am »
This all is going on as people think the mod is not allowed. Not pointing fingers on any, but anyone can just use this topic to ask about the mod, so everyone would've known and nothing like this would've started in the first place.  ::)
"The problem of most people is, they get confused between being beautiful and looking beautiful.

Offline [RD]MecHaNiC

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2020, 04:56:48 am »
 I have nothing personal with Altus and Mia but what i have observed it that they play the game in whatever way they like but when it comes to handling something as an admin they dont act neutral. Also admins are people who are to respected and set an example to normal player. These two dont act like that. They just post their opinions as how they want this gamemode to be instead of how it can be "really fair" for everyone here to play it. They just want to force everything to their mind of fairness, and acting soo rude with whatever case they take on. Altus always protects her like anything. I dont understand why he does that. I have never seen any admin so hated by the COMMUNITY, not just some players. People now a days just want any opportunity to see them demoted.
 
Secondly, Jonne should be dealing with this openly now. I understand he made a mistake by not letting the community know about his action allowing mia to use that mod and not himself testing it or asking other head  admin test it. Mia knew its advantages and still used it. Also she has just took a back hand at these topic made for her and not responding and clearing doubts and questions asked by the community. I think she is mature enough to do this and not take cover behind Altus who is just playing his sarcastic stupid games digging old shit and blaming others instead of speaking in terms of the topic at hand. Oh wait this was done by Mia as well in her only post she made in 1 or these topics. This is not something an Admin should behave like. Keep your game as a player and as an admin seperate.

Then again they are my opinions.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 05:04:50 am by MecHaNiC »

Offline Saurabh

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2020, 05:15:02 am »
I agree we all are writing so many essays and digging topics but bruh, you have reached new heights (not in a bad way).

But I think it is you who should realize this first " it is just a game" , go relax and take a break from digging and writing essays. If players don't resonate with your thoughts there's nothing you can do much, can't keep forcing your words on them ,can you? No matter how much a person try to be "neutral" and unbiased, he can't really be and this applies to every field. So if you think you can do that here, nope you are just deluding yourself unknowingly.
I just hope you are doing well these days and not constantly thinking about server or Mia all day, and I mean this in a good way. Damn that rhymed.

Offline Great_Khali

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2020, 06:53:38 am »
I want to suggest a solution to end this midget war. At least to try to make this server and this forum a pleasant place to spend our time on.

For last, I want to ask everyone, but primarily COBRA and Great_Khali: under what conditions are you ready to coexist with Mia and me here peacefully? I am talking about our personalities, not ingame fights.

Shortening your epic essay , I personally have just 2 Concerns & i'll be fine with it.

  • If the mod is used for aesthetic purpose - Why did she toggle it just before getting in fight?
  • All we want is Mia {even you if you had used it} to apologize to members about being unfair.

Jonne did not check the mod , but you guys knew its advantages- thats why she toggled it before a fight was about to start. As mentioned by Mia in another post about clarification - we know she has modded the skin on her side too - but why chose a fast skin+ her small skin mod just before fight { Its Obvious she wanted to gain Advantage by being faster} 

Just these 2 points i want answered.

Note : Please keep it short.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 07:06:56 am by Great_Khali »

Offline IDAN

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Re: Knights and knaves
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2020, 10:26:43 am »
Maybe close this Topic?

I don't need that Admin will try cover Other Admins Mistakes.