[Added]Presi camping in the air

[SoLoD]

Very simple statement.
If president goes to area 69 = security and terrors are doing the same.
If terrors are moving to area 69 = cops doing the same.
So, president is determining what whole servers is gonna do.
It is hard to have any doubt about this statement.

Now, lets think about restricted things in ptp.
Ovbiously, they have nothing to do with "community" or "admins".
Restricted things = bugs, hacks, mods.
You can call all that things "not the way developers meant to play this game".
Now, between all that things you are putting this "no aircraft using".
Ovbiously, that using aircraft is "the way developers meant to play this game".
So, admins are doing something unnatural.

Next thing is the poll. As i have mentioned above, someone said that poll does not showing what whole "community" wants. 95% of voters are 2+ lvl. But at the same time they are saying that it is "what community wants". Ovbious fact, that they are hiding behind this words. Obvious fact, that 0-1 lvl players do not vote. So, one part of community choose what another part will be able to do, and doing it without this other part even expressing any opinions.

Another fact is next: this "system" vips were voting for is all about them being terrors and not wanting president to do what he wants. The reason is obvious - their low skills.
When you are playing as security, you must stay with president whatever he do.
If you "do not like" how president is doing his choices, you should not be a security.
I do not like how newbie president are doing their choices. I do not have "fun", it is hard etc. Just all that words you were telling me before. But why i am not complaining about it to "not let newb to be a president"? Because he is president, and it is not my business how he wanna play.
Cops, they are just stalking terrors. They always have something to do even when some part of terrors are flying, they still can camp at the armor or stay at airport or near t spawn.
So, at the end we have only terrors. And the fact is that somehow terrors are the ones here to decide how president is gonna play.

So, now you can look at fact number 1 (president is determining what whole servers is gonna do) and last fact (terrors are the ones here to decide how president is gonna play). You were voting for the last one, and now we have both of them. And they are mutually exclusive one another.
So, explain me, because all i see is "we want, we vote".

Explain me why do you kill the main principle of PTP.

[Altus_Demens]

After reading and re-reading everything, I think I'll hold a neutral position about it. You partially convinced me. Indeed, I have got no objective arguments, only the subjective vision that it won't increase (hopefully not reduce) the fun. In the meantime, I don't think that it makes me worse than you, and your tremendous arrogance and elitism is really offensive and irritating. What's next? Area 69 successful campers elitism? Cbuggers elitism? It's so disgusting.

2YoMama: I am sorry if any of my comparisons or words offended you. It was not my intention. Even though I disagree, I respect any adequately expressed and properly reasoned point of view, and I don't compare your suggestions to the absurd ones. I just think that you "abuse" (no offense - you probably don't have no malicious intentions) your position of an old and respected player to suggest de facto the same thing over and over again, although it is mostly not tolerated here, and I keep thinking so. Thanks for the explanations and correcting my factical mistakes - I trust your flying experience and I've yet got a lot to learn in this area.

About votings. I don't think that you are right here. The sad truth is that people mostly don't care. How many persons take part in this, current discussion? 4? People often don't bother to use their civic rights to determine their lives IRL - what do you want from a gaming community which mostly consists of young and totally careless people? Shortly before elections, there were bots in Russian social networks which picked the options "Putin" or "United Russia" in the polls; it was a common joke to add such options to totally irrelevant polls and to observe how many votes they gain. Now add an option "I don't care, I came here to play, leave me alone" in your poll. You don't have to be a Nostradamus to guess that you'll see pretty much the same effect.

You say that your previous polls represent the opinion only of the VIP English-speaking oligarchy. But now it's you who misinterpret the situation. The Forum is not a hidden private club for the "elite". All of the links are ingame; anyone can come here, register and participate. If someone doesn't care, or doesn't want to bother or anything else to express his civic position, it's his fault, not ours. You example with DILMA is totally irrelevant: he, with his rudimentary English, managed to post a topic with the suggestion he had in his mind! Do you think that he is that silly to fail to pick a proper vote in the poll? Yes, our server is multilingual Babylon, but we have to find a proper way to communicate with each other, huh? We have to pick a main language. Nobody forbids you to use the others though.

Nobody but you, YoMama (only if SoLoD and Mia), would read my 'essay' up to this point, so that's what I can suggest directly to you. Elaborate your suggestions the way you want it. If you don't like "black and white" polls, think of one with all of the rainbow colours and its tones. Add a multilingual explanation to each option - ask our players who are equally capable of speaking English and other languages, I don't think that they will refuse to assist you. If you wish, I can translate to Russian or (probably) German, but I guess you'd need Spanish, Portuguese and Hindi. Ask Jonne to add an informational message ingame in different languages - I don't think that he'll refuse either (by the way, I am against any polls ingame. The determining things should be discussed and the decisions should be made at proper places, not ingame after negative emotions, rage and excitement, - the Forum is such a place). Make a referendum which would solve this question once and for all. Because at some point it should be stopped. I do find it unfair and undemocratic to bring back the same, already discussed, tried and rejected thing, over and over again. If this referendum fails again, the similar topics, like the other one already discussed, will be locked and the links to these - 4 already - topics would be given.

I think I clarified everything. I don't see any point for myself to keep replying in this topic. Trying to explain to anyone my point of view properly here, I clearly spend my time in vain.

Conclusion: I stay neutral, nec pro nec contra sum, sapienti sat.

[YoMama]

... I just think that you "abuse" (no offense - you probably don't have no malicious intentions) your position of an old and respected player to suggest de facto the same thing over and over again, although it is mostly not tolerated here, and I keep thinking so.

I don't think someone can ever "abuse" the ability to voice their opinion. At worst, they're a lesson to others. You claim I abuse my position of respect (I have this?) by sticking to my views. However, if you truly think that I "abuse" my "position of respect" by continuing to voice my better-informed perspective, then what do you say to the people around here who are far more respected than I who shoot down suggestions when they don't actually have the background knowledge to speak authoritatively about the subject?

There is no rule against suggesting things repeatedly, nor should there be. Yes, certain blatantly ridiculous suggestions can be fairly safely ignored. However, there are many issues that are not so clear-cut. It's easy to look through the forum history and see issues that come up repeatedly. These topics are not always the same- good luck finding one that is. Different players comment, different players vote. Different changes happen between votes and suggestions. Just look at the armor camping issue over the years, from the old PTP to the new. Many suggestions are now irrelevant because of the advances the server has made. Many people have been wrong about a good many suggestions, and I am one of them. As just one example, I thought multiple duel arenas would screw things up- look at how wrong I was. You can't just point to outdated discussions and decide that future discussions should be prohibited because "it's already been discussed enough".

Somehow, Jonne was generous enough to make a huge change to the flying rules in a short time. The change, understandably due to its scope, was reversed. I then realized the mistake I'd been making all along. After waiting for a few months, I made the most recent poll, which actually gave people more options to choose from. Unsurprisingly, people let the President fly in conditions that they thought were suitable. I'm pretty sure the first all-or-nothing change actually influenced some people's views for the better going into the second poll. The second poll was not the same poll as the first, nor was it a group of people with the same mindset and information voting, and it showed. I was quite happy with the change.

Now, we're in another new environment. The President can fly almost everything. It is not a disaster and has not changed the game in a very significant way. A lot more people know a lot more about flying than they did 11 months ago, including you, as you just stated. Is it still the same suggestion if the situation isn't the same? It seems to me that the responses here and in the other topic for letting Presidents fly Rustlers are quite different from the responses last year. Additionally, they're different suggestions- just try to go past the trolling and read. On top of that, unlike in the past years that I've been playing this game, I didn't even suggest them. These suggestions are successors to the previous ones; they are not in the same circumstances and putting forth the same ideas, or at all worthy of being locked because you've decided that it's somehow "unfair" not to shut them down like suggestions that are not even remotely as reasonable.

[Jonne]

Since we've recently re-enabled some airplanes again, and since it's a pretty limited selection of aircrafts, I think disabling the timer goes along with it. So, we'll disable it in a future update.

Added: https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=4076.0