Cropdusters, RC's boundaries, flying Presidents, and forum reports

[YoMama]

Shortened TL;DR list, for Alcor:

• Add Cropdusters in RC and other maps where appropriate.
• Extend north and west boundaries of RC so boats can make it around the map.
• Allow the President to fly planes that are slower than Rustlers and all helicopters.
• Disallow forum reports for rulebreaking like spawnkilling, armor camping, etc. or at least require longer videos as the short ones can be misleading.

Details:
I was thinking that it would be nice to add a few Cropdusters in Red County, which would make it easier to get around. Specifically, there's the farm near the Civilian spawn, which would be good, then there are other little flat spots where one could be thrown in. There are other spots in other maps where Cropdusters could be added, but RC has the most opportunities and need.

The north and west boundaries of RC are inexplicably niggardly, which leads to problems getting boats around certain parts of the land from the water, and annoying boundary issues near the UFO and other places. I think they should both be extended a bit, so boats can navigate all the continuous bodies of water instead of small chunks that are only isolated by poorly-placed boundaries. This would also open up the railroad bridge to the east of the UFO, which could be a bad or good thing (and would be fixable with some objects). Also, there should be some object that stops people from hitting the boundary of the map at the southern bridge going into Flint County, so they don't go flying into the river after hitting the boundary.

I suggested this a while ago and Jonne said that he would see what everyone else thought, so now that there is a active group posting here, I'll ask again if the President should be able to fly certain planes/helicopters. I'm quoting myself because I'm lazy and don't want to write my argument again:

I still see no reason why the President can't fly planes and helicopters that aren't faster than Rustlers. The President shouldn't be able to fly a Shamal, but Stuntplanes, Cropdusters, Dodos, etc. should be allowed. They're analogous to NRGs on the ground with Rustlers being Infernuses. You can run for a bit if you're really good, but with a good Infernus driver (and combat shotgun) against you, you're probably screwed. If someone is on top of another plane with a sniper rifle or AK-47 it doesn't even require much flying skill to take a President down and most Presidents suck too much to even get that far off the ground anyway.

My final suggestion is to disallow forum reports that aren't for either hacking or bugging, and to require a minimum video length of 30 seconds to avoid the propagandized shitshow that was the old reports section.

[Altus_Demens]

I was thinking that it would be nice to add a few Cropdusters in Red County, which would make it easier to get around. Specifically, there's the farm near the Civilian spawn, which would be good, then there are other little flat spots where one could be thrown in. There are other spots in other maps where Cropdusters could be added, but RC has the most opportunities and need.

+1. And yeah, are there any sparrows in RC? Probably some can be added along with Cropdusters.

The north and west boundaries of RC are inexplicably niggardly, which leads to problems getting boats around certain parts of the land from the water, and annoying boundary issues near the UFO and other places. I think they should both be extended a bit, so boats can navigate all the continuous bodies of water instead of small chunks that are only isolated by poorly-placed boundaries. This would also open up the railroad bridge to the east of the UFO, which could be a bad or good thing (and would be fixable with some objects). Also, there should be some object that stops people from hitting the boundary of the map at the southern bridge going into Flint County, so they don't go flying into the river after hitting the boundary.

+1. I have free time now so I hope to finish polygonal world boundaries soon, but anyways your suggestion certainly makes sense.

My final suggestion is to disallow forum reports that aren't for either hacking or bugging, and to require a minimum video length of 30 seconds to avoid the propagandized shitshow that was the old reports section.

"...and minimum quality of 1080p" Honestly, I don't think that it's needed to put such restrictions to the reports. Here I made only 10 seconds video. Of course, I could put 20 seconds more of riding on NRG in San Fierro, but you'd die of boredom then.

I don't want report section to turn into "propagandized shitshow" too, but I think it would be enough to manually punish people who abuse reports post factum. If you blame someone, it should be done publicly, unless there are strong reason like in case of reporting aimbotters. Btw, you didn't mention admin abuse, which could be possible in future even here, though "senior abusers" were all demoted. So, -1 for this one.

[YoMama]

My final suggestion is to disallow forum reports that aren't for either hacking or bugging, and to require a minimum video length of 30 seconds to avoid the propagandized shitshow that was the old reports section.

"...and minimum quality of 1080p" Honestly, I don't think that it's needed to put such restrictions to the reports. Here I made only 10 seconds video. Of course, I could put 20 seconds more of riding on NRG in San Fierro, but you'd die of boredom then.

I don't want report section to turn into "propagandized shitshow" too, but I think it would be enough to manually punish people who abuse reports post factum. If you blame someone, it should be done publicly, unless there are strong reason like in case of reporting aimbotters. Btw, you didn't mention admin abuse, which could be possible in future even here, though "senior abusers" were all demoted. So, -1 for this one.

Admen aboose should be on the forums, I agree.

Regardless, I think most of the report videos need way more context. Somebody does something once and it's recorded in a 5 second clip... that doesn't really show a history of that behavior, or anything that happened around that time. I'm not doubting your report, but how do I know that you didn't follow SamuKa to the armor spawn?

You didn't address my main point, which is that the run-of-the-mill rulebreaking shouldn't even be on the forums. For a very long time, it wasn't even worth it to report those kinds of things; now it's constantly being done. I'm not even going to bother giving an example of the petty, badly-supported, and generally useless reports that come out of allowing reports for rulebreaking... there are already examples contaminating this forum and plenty are stinking up the old one.

[Altus_Demens]

I'm not doubting your report, but how do I know that you didn't follow SamuKa to the armor spawn?

Well, yeah. You're right, it was a poor example.
But, say, we have a cheater with minigun who's just killing everyone. Wouldn't it be enough to post a very short video with him when he's clearly seen holding minigun and shooting people? As for me, it would be. I understand your position, but I don't believe that "video length qualification" could be helpful with keeping the report section clean of irrelevant posts.

You didn't address my main point, which is that the run-of-the-mill rulebreaking shouldn't even be on the forums. For a very long time, it wasn't even worth it to report those kinds of things; now it's constantly being done. I'm not even going to bother giving an example of the petty, badly-supported, and generally useless reports that come out of allowing reports for rulebreaking...

I see, and I completely disagree.
In no means rulebreaking should be differentiated into "run-of-the-mill" and "non-run-of-the-mill" cases. If someone breaks the rules and it spoils yours or others' gameplay, you must report him. It is the only way to prevent people from abusing against you.

In the old server me & Litt were harassed a lot. It was OK for regulars from our team to pop our tires or to saw us in the middle of the fight so our already slight chances of winning our desperate fights were reduced to zero. It was OK for cop and terro to unite against us. It was very annoying and irritating. And only when I ceased to be lazy and started to record every my game and to report every case of abusing, first in IRC, then on forums, only then people quit harassing us.

So I suggest everyone to record their games and to report every case of rulebreaking, it's the only way to get rid of rulebreaking or abusing.

there are already examples contaminating this forum and plenty are stinking up the old one.

If you hint to this report, I must say that I fully agree with Mia. In Gablo's case it doesn't even matter if there were enemies around: he purposely immobilized his teammate, which could be done for fun, but totally inappropriate when the "victim" is against it. So by this report Mia most probably has freed herself from such cases in the future; how else was she supposed to do it? The only bad thing is, of course, the lack of the video.

[Alcor]

can someone please summarize the main suggestions of this topic into easy to read bullet points. Would be really faster to look into :p

[YoMama]

can someone please summarize the main suggestions of this topic into easy to read bullet points. Would be really faster to look into :p

I added a bullet point list to my first post- sorry, I like to write.

But, say, we have a cheater with minigun who's just killing everyone. Wouldn't it be enough to post a very short video with him when he's clearly seen holding minigun and shooting people? As for me, it would be. I understand your position, but I don't believe that "video length qualification" could be helpful with keeping the report section clean of irrelevant posts.

I guess what I should have said is that the length qualification should apply to rulebreaking videos only- bugging and hacking are almost never mistakes. I just think there should be more evidence than someone doing something once, possibly accidentally, if rulebreaking reports are to be allowed at all.

In the old server me & Litt were harassed a lot. It was OK for regulars from our team to pop our tires or to saw us in the middle of the fight so our already slight chances of winning our desperate fights were reduced to zero. It was OK for cop and terro to unite against us. It was very annoying and irritating. And only when I ceased to be lazy and started to record every my game and to report every case of abusing, first in IRC, then on forums, only then people quit harassing us.

So I suggest everyone to record their games and to report every case of rulebreaking, it's the only way to get rid of rulebreaking or abusing.

That kind of abuse is not, in my opinion, run-of-the-mill and I do think you should be able to report it on the forums, but I also think that it would be reasonable to have a little context in the form of a longer video. I trust you, but a little lag can end up with the chainsaw going into a teammate by accident. If it happens by accident, a malicious person can make it look deliberate in a five second video that doesn't show the person with the chainsaw obviously trying to hit the opposite team. A longer video would show how plausible abuse claims are without making honest reports look bad.

If you hint to this report, I must say that I fully agree with Mia. In Gablo's case it doesn't even matter if there were enemies around: he purposely immobilized his teammate, which could be done for fun, but totally inappropriate when the "victim" is against it. So by this report Mia most probably has freed herself from such cases in the future; how else was she supposed to do it? The only bad thing is, of course, the lack of the video.

... however, this is exactly the kind of bullshit I don't like. This one is pretty flimsy, even by her standards. The "spawnkilling" report shows nothing; the other shows a lack of humor. Many players I know would have probably done /holiday eng and returned fire. It's not really hurting anyone, and it only lasted for 7 seconds by the timestamp. However, reporting it makes for good character assassination and I guess it gives her a rush to try to get someone into trouble with admins.

That shit shouldn't be allowed... it only leads to the petty reporting wars that were the bane of the old PTP.

[Spectre]

If you hint to this report, I must say that I fully agree with Mia. In Gablo's case it doesn't even matter if there were enemies around: he purposely immobilized his teammate, which could be done for fun, but totally inappropriate when the "victim" is against it. So by this report Mia most probably has freed herself from such cases in the future; how else was she supposed to do it? The only bad thing is, of course, the lack of the video.

... however, this is exactly the kind of bullshit I don't like. This one is pretty flimsy, even by her standards. The "spawnkilling" report shows nothing; the other shows a lack of humor. Many players I know would have probably done /holiday eng and returned fire. It's not really hurting anyone, and it only lasted for 7 seconds by the timestamp. However, reporting it makes for good character assassination and I guess it gives her a rush to try to get someone into trouble with admins.

That shit shouldn't be allowed... it only leads to the petty reporting wars that were the bane of the old PTP.

I completely agree with this. That report for Gablo was plainly stupid imho, and not because we're clan mates, but exactly for the reasons that YoMama stated. I can almost guarantee that if it were some other player she wouldn't have reported him, but because it was Gablo and they have a "feud" going on, she decided to get him punished for the silliest thing ever.

We all just really need to stop being Fraps-happy and instead enjoy the game mode.

[Altus_Demens]

...a little lag can end up with the chainsaw going into a teammate by accident. If it happens by accident, a malicious person can make it look deliberate in a five second video that doesn't show the person with the chainsaw obviously trying to hit the opposite team. A longer video would show how plausible abuse claims are without making honest reports look bad.

Yes, you are right. I agree with this.

Well, I got your position, YoMama, and I partially agree with it. But, as for me, long context videos for such cases should be only highly recommended, but not absolutely required. If a player considers that his gameplay is unfairly spoiled, he should be able to post a message about that. And it will be up to admins what do with that. If a player makes too much irrelevant reports, he can be blocked from it, as well as he can be blocked from reporting ingame. By the way, just imagine how much futile reports do admins receive ingame every day. Many people are sure that they are SA:MP Gods, and their accurate opponent is using aimbot, and so on.

I mean, I liked Quido's reply. Look, he just politely asked Gablo not to do so anymore. No drama, no hate, no admin powers were used: he was just politely asked. Did it take much time for Quido? I don't think so. Is Gablo offended? I don't think so as well. So now Mia just assured that she won't get into such situations anymore, nobody's feelings are hurted, no drama performed. As for me, that's how reports should work. All kind of reports should be tolerated a priori, but the reporter can be punished himself if he anyhow abuses reports.

I like your TL;DR list, so let's summarize everything:

• Add Cropdusters in RC and other maps where appropriate. (+1)
• Extend north and west boundaries of RC so boats can make it around the map. (+1)
• Allow the President to fly planes that are slower than Rustlers and all helicopters. (+1)
• Disallow forum reports for rulebreaking like spawnkilling, armor camping, etc. or at least require longer videos as the short ones can be misleading. (-1) Instead I suggest to treat all of the reports equally, and to add the recommendation of creating long videos for controversial situations with the possibility of punishing people who abuse the report section.

[Uthar_Smith]

I'm not sure if the boundaries are a in a square shape, but if they are it wouldn't be a good idea to extend the boundaries any further in RC. If you move the boundaries any further to the north, you would easily be able to get to the ufo by land, which completely defeats the purpose of the ufo

[YoMama]

I'm not sure if the boundaries are a in a square shape, but if they are it wouldn't be a good idea to extend the boundaries any further in RC. If you move the boundaries any further to the north, you would easily be able to get to the ufo by land, which completely defeats the purpose of the ufo

They are square:

This would also open up the railroad bridge to the east of the UFO, which could be a bad or good thing (and would be fixable with some objects).

I happen to agree with you that (easily) getting to the UFO by land makes it pointless.