Relations between civilians and other classes

[Altus_Demens]

Hi there,

there is another thing I wish to suggest.
We've got a rule stating that:

You are not allowed to help the opposing team in any way.

This is quite simple and unambigious before it comes to civilians.
At the same time, civilians are able to attack any other player ingame and get into any other player's car. Sometimes it leads to the situation when a civilian easily kills a member of a team (for example, terrorists) and then escapes with another terrorist, his "friend", getting in his vehicle; other terrorists are not able to do anything with it, because they can't stop the car (by shooting/popping tyres) nor kill the civilian, because the passengers of some vehicles (the simplest example is NRG) are invulnerable.

I find it unfair and annoying at some particular situations, and there is an easy solution:
If a civilian, during his lifetime, dealt damage to a member of one of the teams (good or bad), he shouldn't be able to get in the car of a member of this team (just like members of the opposing team) before he respawns. Very simple, and should be as effective.

It seems to be a good idea to add polls to the suggestions, so here is another one. Please, vote and explain your position.

[Pranesh]

Everyone is vulnerable in some way. This might not be fair with all but we can still hit the passenger on nrg with Sniper/Chainsaw easily but from neutral point of view, Yes it is unfair a terrorist helping a civilian to kill another terrorist. While looking at it differently, Civilians are not hard to kill when against any other team. So, it should stay as it is because you can get in that car too or just run. Normal shotgun is not hard to avoid nor OP like the Spas-12.

[Faro0s]

-1

Civilian is not a class. He or she can do whatever he/she wants except breaking rules.

[Skittles]

Civilians don't have a recommendation from above on how to play, they can help each class in following their gameplay. The advantage of this class is that their duty is fluid, which means that within a minute they can change their mind about who they help. This is a compensation for a weak set of weapons (as it was already said, they’re easy targets) and, in my opinion, it should not change.

[Piu]

Cmon man...  Civil can kill terrorist and terrorist can kill civil so no issue
-100

[Altus_Demens]

According to the replies, my topic has not been read carefully. Let me give an example.

Skittles, Quido and Altus_Demens are terrorists. Mia is a civilian. Skittles teams up with Quido and they engage a fight with cops. In the meantime, Altus_Demens teams up with Mia and Mia kills Quido. Skittles is willing to revenge by killing Mia, but Mia gets on Altus_Demens' NRG as a passenger, becomes invulnerable, waves her hand to Skitt and gets driven away. Skittles is unable to kill Mia, his enemy, because she abused the anti-teamkilling system: Skittles cannot kill Altus_Demens and stop the bike; Skittles cannot pop the tyres of Altus_Demens' bike because Altus_Demens is Skittles' teammate, Skittles cannot harm Mia because a passenger on an NRG is immortal. I find it unfair. Mia shouldn't be able to become immortal with the help of Altus_Demens, because they belong to different teams. She can still jump on Altus_Demens' bike so Skittles could snipe her; she can try to run away. But she shouldn't be able to use the help of her friend from the other team to become invulnerable.

Please, read the example above and understand what I am talking about... (@Piu)

[IDAN]

-1
Wont solve the problem because Mia (example) can jump on your bike you will be faster .and she can kill they by sniper.

They can shot her with combat but still one bullet of here sniper on wheel will make them slow....

Not good suggestion.

[Piu]

According to the replies, my topic has not been read carefully. Let me give an example.

Skittles, Quido and Altus_Demens are terrorists. Mia is a civilian. Skittles teams up with Quido and they engage a fight with cops. In the meantime, Altus_Demens teams up with Mia and Mia kills Quido. Skittles is willing to revenge by killing Mia, but Mia gets on Altus_Demens' NRG as a passenger, becomes invulnerable, waves her hand to Skitt and gets driven away. Skittles is unable to kill Mia, his enemy, because she abused the anti-teamkilling system: Skittles cannot kill Altus_Demens and stop the bike; Skittles cannot pop the tyres of Altus_Demens' bike because Altus_Demens is Skittles' teammate, Skittles cannot harm Mia because a passenger on an NRG is immortal. I find it unfair. Mia shouldn't be able to become immortal with the help of Altus_Demens, because they belong to different teams. She can still jump on Altus_Demens' bike so Skittles could snipe her; she can try to run away. But she shouldn't be able to use the help of her friend from the other team to become invulnerable.

Please, read the example above and understand what I am talking about... (@Piu)

I've understood it altus..

What I want to say is

-1
Wont solve the problem because Mia (example) can jump on your bike you will be faster .and she can kill they by sniper.

They can shot her with combat but still one bullet of here sniper on wheel will make them slow....

Not good suggestion.

[Skittles]

According to the replies, my topic has not been read carefully. Let me give an example.

Skittles, Quido and Altus_Demens are terrorists. Mia is a civilian. Skittles teams up with Quido and they engage a fight with cops. In the meantime, Altus_Demens teams up with Mia and Mia kills Quido. Skittles is willing to revenge by killing Mia, but Mia gets on Altus_Demens' NRG as a passenger, becomes invulnerable, waves her hand to Skitt and gets driven away. Skittles is unable to kill Mia, his enemy, because she abused the anti-teamkilling system: Skittles cannot kill Altus_Demens and stop the bike; Skittles cannot pop the tyres of Altus_Demens' bike because Altus_Demens is Skittles' teammate, Skittles cannot harm Mia because a passenger on an NRG is immortal. I find it unfair. Mia shouldn't be able to become immortal with the help of Altus_Demens, because they belong to different teams. She can still jump on Altus_Demens' bike so Skittles could snipe her; she can try to run away. But she shouldn't be able to use the help of her friend from the other team to become invulnerable.

Yes, Altus, I understood the problem you’ve described. I suspect that this topic is caused by a similar case which took place some time ago with me, Mia and some Vice President, who I decided to team up after killing Mia’s (security) team mate.

I’ll say the same as I already said here and I’ve said back then. Because civilians’ duty is fluid, their support for one or another class can be modified during the game, considering various factors. They don’t have clearly defined opposite and ally teams, so it depends on them who they help. As for a restriction to allow them taking a side only once for one ‘spawn life’, I’m against it, since it’s their privilege to amend the way they play the game mode during the gameplay.

[YoMama]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Civilians aren't a team and they can do whatever they want. The civilians aren't the problem- it's the person who is protecting the civilians when they kill other members of their team who is the problem. If you look at it this way, the terrorist who abuses their anti-teamkilling measures to protect someone who is opposing their team is already breaking the rule you mentioned:

You are not allowed to help the opposing team in any way.

In another more common example, take a bunch of civilians and cops riding together, and the cop driving goes near the president, at which point the civilians shoot at the president from their car that can't be destroyed by protectors. The cop should either make it impossible for the civilians to hit the president or he should sacrifice himself and kill the offenders. If he's not doing either and helping the civilians by chasing after the president with them, then he's breaking the aforementioned rule- he's functionally equivalent to a VHH-ing civilian. I agree with you that this is unfair- it's really wonderful to encounter a posse with sniper rifles doing this while you're president. There's nothing you can do about it with no admins around and people seem to have no shame.

In another example, take the presidents and protectors who inexplicably let their civilian (or sometimes terrorist) friends kill every security who they aren't friends with when they could easily stop it and not doing so puts the president at risk. I've never understood why this one is not a bigger deal, except that Lacerta used to do it.

Sure, the civilians are not being loyal to either side, but they can do that. It's the people who help them or allow them to hurt their team who are the real problems and can and should be punished under the existing rules.

[Altus_Demens]

2YoMama: yes, you are right in what you're saying.
But I am suggesting a script which would completely prevent it. There would be no need to punish anyone for it; it would just be impossible to "abuse" this way. Why are you against adding such a script?

[MAR.]

-1, no need

[MegaPilot]

-1
Wont solve the problem because Mia (example) can jump on your bike you will be faster .and she can kill they by sniper.

But in that case she is VULNERABLE. If she's a passenger, she's NOT. That's the difference.

I like the suggestion, seems logical to me. +1

[Spectre]

Civilians don't have a recommendation from above on how to play, they can help each class in following their gameplay. The advantage of this class is that their duty is fluid, which means that within a minute they can change their mind about who they help. This is a compensation for a weak set of weapons (as it was already said, they’re easy targets) and, in my opinion, it should not change.

Exactly this ^

[COBRA]

Adding a new script to stop this kind of abuses is not really needed.. I think this happens very rare. Also who uses them are regular players and they have to be punished. Not the only civillian getting punishment, the team player who lets civil abuse the anti teamshoot needs to get punished too.
But as I said, there is no need for any rule since civillians are free to do everything. There is a rule already and admins can punish anyone based on proofs. No need to make a script, no need to add a new rule. Because it will bring here more reports, more complicated stuff instead of solving the issue. Ofcourse those are my personal opinion.