[Added]Vehicle surfing changes

[Miau]

Another crucial surfing point is that civilians could jump on a terror/cop's vehicle to avoid being driveby'd to death and it was a pretty awesome mechanic where the terror would have to get out and face you otherwise he dies, sadly now it doesn't exist to the advantage of terrors/cops/secs. + you could troll the cop/terror by sitting in his car, he would eventually kill you but still


We have everyone agreeing but 2 admins with conflict of interest and we cannot do anything, do you see problem with this, Jonne?

That's why it's a good idea to add a 5-second delay as I said before, so civilians and opposite team members aren't defenceless against drive-by.

Lol. My opinion is a conflict of interest? So what's your opinion? 100% altruism, kindness, solidarity and some sort of divine pureness?

My only interest is not getting hunted by civilians I can't kill because they are on my team mate's car. Or watching civilians magically escape using my team mate's car like it was a Get-out-of-jail card. I don't want anyone else to experience the same either. I understand that you don't share this interest, since you have unofficial peace agreements with almost every player that engages in this tactic.

If my interest was to take advantage of this rule to abuse commands, I would be the biggest supporter of this suggestion. Keep in mind that this script made admins absolutely irrelevant when it comes to enforcing this rule. We no longer decide what the punishment is. No more disagreements, no more forum drama.

[IceBreaker]

That's why it's a good idea to add a 5-second delay as I said before, so civilians and opposite team members aren't defenceless against drive-by.

3 deagle shots + 2 seconds, don't know how much that is, but that's a fine solution

My only interest is not getting hunted by civilians I can't kill because they are on my team mate's car.

Why can't you kill? Why does that even exist? Civilians should be able to be killed by anything and anywhere, can we add that in script as a rule?

Or watching civilians magically escape using my team mate's car like it was a Get-out-of-jail card. I don't want anyone else to experience the same either. I understand that you don't share this interest, since you have unofficial peace agreements with almost every player that engages in this tactic.

Why is it the civilian's fault and not your teammate that aided him in it. Why isn't your teammate punished for collaborating with the enemy? But wait, are civilians enemies? They might be in "team" with the terror, how is a script going to judge that? The civ is just using the tools at his disposal to survive and then punished for trying instead of the terror who made it possible.


Shit happens when something as loose as the civ class which is only a "class" or a "team" in script terms is being messed with

[Srex_Zangetsu]

Why make a delay?
Is there a way to count how many seconds has a terrorist been on a cop car,or vice-versa?
If we establish how many is enough for a kill,there's no need to "drop" anything.
We can simply see if they've been on the car for that long and know they've been in a fight,unless proven otherwise.
But if they've been on it longer,and haven't killed the enemy,we (I mean the admins/mods) can deem that as teamwork and jail them or something.
But the civilians must be excluded,they're a specific group and cannot be put under the same standards.
Like he said,they should be vulnerable to anything,so the problem would be fixed with it.No protection of any kind.

[COBRA]

Another crucial surfing point is that civilians could jump on a terror/cop's vehicle to avoid being driveby'd to death and it was a pretty awesome mechanic where the terror would have to get out and face you otherwise he dies, sadly now it doesn't exist to the advantage of terrors/cops/secs. + you could troll the cop/terror by sitting in his car, he would eventually kill you but still


We have everyone agreeing but 2 admins with conflict of interest and we cannot do anything, do you see problem with this, Jonne?

Exactly, you said so true and wild!

Well we are not able to teamup with civ anymore as a team player. Civilians are alone now, they can't surf on presidents plane to cover him, they can't teamup with terror to kill president, they can't teamup with cop to kill terrorists, they can't surf on any vehicle to kill driver.

PTP Gamemode's first break here. Changing the civilian class motto with surfing. It is not "just surfing". It is more than surfing which makes more tactics for civilians.

That rules were for the non-civ class since at the beginning. That rule was for the TEAMS which was all about TEAM BLOCKING. But a few days ago, Mia had problem with civ class and it leads to changing whole civ class motto and breaking it's sipirit.

What admins & mods doing for servers? They should be able to punish teamblockers like as we (Khali, Icebreaker, Matt, etc) did for more than 5 years long in our admin duty period. Mia being admin not even for a month, killing civilian with the admin force /drop, then hides behind the "teamblocking" rule which is not for civilians at all. And this new system totally breaks down civilian class system...

We all agreed to remove that new system "surf thing" already, Jonne. Let the staff do work instead of staff playing game when report comes. They must handle it, they choosen to staff position for this. Staff here for to enforce rules, not forcing rules by their own pleasure.  We don't need useless surf thing which damages PTP gamemode system.

[Mai]

 +1 for remove this

[Jonne]

So, the system is obviously too restrictive. Now, in my opinion, having a civ team up with terros or cops, and attacking people on that team shouldn't be allowed, for 2 reasons. Let's take the scenario where a civ is teaming up with a terro, and attacking another terro.
1. The civ is on an invulnarable car, so that already makes it harder to kill him.
2. There's the sniper bug. For those that are unaware, you can't snipe people that are surfing a vehicle. It's a SAMP bug that's been around a long time, but went unnoticeable for the most part. I think the main reason nobody really noticed it, is because we didn't have hitsounds and indicators in the past, so we'd never know if we hit someone with a sniper or not. So, from far enough away, the civ would be able to snipe the terro, with the terro not being able to do anything back (he can't damage the car, and he can't damage the player who's sniping him).
So, for these 2 reasons, we thought this would be unfair and implemented the system.

Now, we know the system is too harsh currently, so here's what I'm proposing: we remove all restrictions, except in the following cases:

• A civ surfing on a terro car, and attacking another terro (that is not in or on the same car) -> Your bullets will be disabled, so you can't do any damage
• A cop surfing on a terro car, and attacking another terro (that is not in or on the same car) -> Your bullets will be disabled, so you can't do any damage, and you'll be removed from the vehicle
• A civ surfing on a cop/SWAT car, and attacking another person of that team (Pres/Vice/Sec/Cop/Swat, that is not in or on the same car) -> Your bullets will be disabled, so you can't do any damage
• A terro surfing on a cop/SWAT car, and attacking another person of that team (Pres/Vice/Sec/Cop/Swat, that is not in or on the same car) -> Your bullets will be disabled, so you can't do any damage, and you'll be removed from the vehicle

So, this would mean civs can ride with anyone, just that in some cases their bullets would be disabled. There wouldn't be any restrictions for the Pres/Sec class (everyone will be able to ride their car), as those cases are a lot rarer.

I think this should cover most of obvious cases which can be abused. As for some smaller, more specific cases that weren't addressed with this:

• If a team player is driving around with someone from the opposite team (non-civs), the person on top will be warned and pushed at first. Further incidents will be punished with a jail. We won't go further than a 10 min jail for this.
• For a civ riding on top of a team player (cop, terro, ...), no action will be taken (except the disabling bullets described above when he attacks a teammate of the person he's surfing on on).

[IceBreaker]

Seems like a good and fair solution

[Tochy]

...
2. There's the sniper bug. For those that are unaware, you can't snipe people that are surfing a vehicle. It's a SAMP bug that's been around a long time, but went unnoticeable for the most part. I think the main reason nobody really noticed it, is because we didn't have hitsounds and indicators in the past, so we'd never know if we hit someone with a sniper or not. So, from far enough away, the civ would be able to snipe the terro, with the terro not being able to do anything back (he can't damage the car, and he can't damage the player who's sniping him).

Good point, but this would be possible for SAMP Addon users

[Saurabh]

Thanks for thinking this through and coming up with a better solution. Much better than just disabling surfing.

[Kelik]

Now I think this is fair enough and yeah, SAMP Addon users CAN damage the ones on top of the vehicle. I say that this is even better now I think. 

[Darwin/Retired]

I guess this rule only applies for VIPS and regular players...Staff members allowed to do it based on what I am seeing

[Altus_Demens]

• For a civ riding on top of a team player (cop, terro, ...), no action will be taken (except the disabling bullets described above when he attacks a teammate of the person he's surfing on on).

I find this extremely unfair as this basically makes it legal to team up with civilians against your own class. It has to fall under the no helping the enemy rule or we should introduce the surfing time for civilians, but in no way we can leave it as is now.
I had to deviate from my principle and play this way with Mia today in order to show how abusive it is; a 20 minutes game has already resulted in a report. I completely agree with Madman, but at the moment it is allowed. Let's change it, voice your opinions, please.

Nota bene! Mia did not shoot Madman while staying on my car, she was simply scoping. Also, her bullets wouldn't have dealt any damage anyway (look at Jonne's post above).

[Arabiane]

• For a civ riding on top of a team player (cop, terro, ...), no action will be taken (except the disabling bullets described above when he attacks a teammate of the person he's surfing on on).

I find this extremely unfair as this basically makes it legal to team up with civilians against your own class. It has to fall under the no helping the enemy rule or we should introduce the surfing time for civilians, but in no way we can leave it as is now.
I had to deviate from my principle and play this way with Mia today in order to show how abusive it is; a 20 minutes game has already resulted in a report. I completely agree with Madman, but at the moment it is allowed. Let's change it, voice your opinions, please.

Nota bene! Mia did not shoot Madman while staying on my car, she was simply scoping. Also, her bullets wouldn't have dealt any damage anyway (look at Jonne's post above).

That was a smart move from you to piss off every player in the server to change there opinion,but you'll just loose players .
the current systeme is good.

[IceBreaker]

• For a civ riding on top of a team player (cop, terro, ...), no action will be taken (except the disabling bullets described above when he attacks a teammate of the person he's surfing on on).

I find this extremely unfair as this basically makes it legal to team up with civilians against your own class. It has to fall under the no helping the enemy rule or we should introduce the surfing time for civilians, but in no way we can leave it as is now.
I had to deviate from my principle and play this way with Mia today in order to show how abusive it is; a 20 minutes game has already resulted in a report. I completely agree with Madman, but at the moment it is allowed. Let's change it, voice your opinions, please.

Nota bene! Mia did not shoot Madman while staying on my car, she was simply scoping. Also, her bullets wouldn't have dealt any damage anyway (look at Jonne's post above).

Bruv you tried so hard to break the rule, even as an admin but you still didn't break any rules 

[Tochy]

as you clearly see, my teammate helps the opponent to escape death and cover him, which is kinda annoying because I want to kill the civilian,and I cant damage the vehicule he's surfing on, so I want to suggest, since you brought out this idea, to disable surfing on the opponent team's vehicules for civilians