Basques are "guilty"

[style!]

(sorry for bringing this political topic here, but i think this will help you all to understand why i hate to be related with spain)

I'm pretty sure you know about Berlin Attack, where 12 persons died and 49 were injured. One of injured was basque. But, he is not just basque, he's a basque nationalism.

Since this detail was revealded, spanish media started a campaing making this guy "guilty" (example, sorry it's in spanish). During last hours, a lost of people commented on social media that poor boy deserved it.

Why? Because in spain there is no difference between nationalism and terrorist (unless it's spanish nationalism, "the only one good nationalism").

So, that's spain, full of hate.

[Miau]

Most of that article is pure cheap sensationalism, but there's an interesting point. That person who was a victim of jihad terrorism last night used to tweet things like "It's not about armed fighting being necessary to take the power, it's about the power never giving it [the power] up willingly". That's basically an appeal to violence as a mean to achieve political objectives, also known as terrorism.
I'm not saying he deserves to suffer those horrible events in Berlin (and that's not the generalized opinion Spain as you are trying to hint), but it's indeed ironic. Hopefully that will make him change his point of view when it comes to terrorism, even if it's in the hard way...

Of course there's a difference between nationalism and terrorism... but this boy seemed to be more supportive of the second one,

[Altus_Demens]

So, style, you state that you hate to be related with Spain due to a publication in mass media and social network comments?..

Unfortunately, I don't understand a single word in Spanish, and I didn't bother putting the article in google translate... Although quick googling revealed a few English articles and sources about this "OK Diario", and it doesn't really look to be trustworthy. But anyways, let's consider that you are right and that Spanish mass media started a real campaign against that poor injured guy.

You perfectly know that any mass media (but very few) are always related and engaged by its sponsors in one way or another. Very often the sponsor is mass media's country government itself. Do you expect that the information would always be presented correctly and impartially? Especially when we talk about scandalous, daily events which are related to the age-old issues. That guy posted something between nationalist and terrorist ideas, then he got injured; now both sides are spilling shit to each other. Try to look from the outside: isn't it ridiculous and in the same time very sad? Silly things, which were said by one, leaded to thousand silly things said by masses, which was caused by a real attack which involved real human casualties.

Besides, if you state that they started a campaign, it means that they tend to impact on your opinion, which isn't supposed to be done by true, impartial mass media. That means that this article and the whole campaign is indeed sensationalism, which only purpose is provoking... And you are getting provoked. Here, in Russia, I face it everyday. Probably it helped me to grow resistance from such things, to search for trustworthy and impartial "news distributors", otherwise our propaganda machine would have already rolled over me and my mind.

And I want to say a few words about nationalism. Nationalists always contrapose themselves from nazi. Like, "we don't want to harm any other nation, we just want our nation to prosper". Pure angels, right? Unfortunately, I have never seen any nationalist organization and/or movement which would really follow this. The vaunted nationalist unity is always based on hatred or intolerance towards "the others", "foreigners". Someone is always preventing them from building brave new world - insidious haters outside of "The Nation We Want To Prosper". Generally I am always very suspicious towards nationalists. The whole philosophy remains tainted (although it doesn't explicitly consist of hatred): why do you think that some people deserved to live better than others only because they got out of womb at the particular region of the Earth? What is "nation"? An artificial attribute to divide people even more. I won't definitely live until this term becomes obsolete, but at least I can dream of it.

Suming up, I know about Basque conflict only in general terms. But in general the problem is actual pretty much everywhere in the Earth. Russian and Ukrainian mass media do their best to grow hatred between Russia and Ukraine. Of course, there are always objective reasons in any conflicts, but biased mass media are always willing to escalate it. How many times did I read comments about European attacks from the Russian highest authorities like "They deserved it, God punishes you, Gayrope!11". Yes, it is such a shame. Such a shame we still have it in XXI century. It's not about Russian authorities, it's about the humanity in general. Every goverment is pretty much the same when it comes to lowdowns of politics.
And your statement, style, can probably be applied to every single country (nation) in the world.

Why? Because in <country name> there is no difference between nationalism and terrorist (unless it's <country's titular nation> nationalism, "the only one good nationalism").

So, that's <country name>, full of hate.

[Crash]

holy shit
tl;dr

[style!]

That person who was a victim of jihad terrorism last night used to tweet things like "It's not about armed fighting being necessary to take the power, it's about the power never giving it [the power] up willingly". That's basically an appeal to violence as a mean to achieve political objectives, also known as terrorism.

Are you kidding me? You did amazing interpretation. Good job!

Can I give you another one? This sentence (or similar) is used to express the next idea:
 - "You can break the law to fight the power, but not use the violence".

An example of this: using illegal* (but democratic) referendum to gain independence.

Is that terrorism??

Or maybe terrorism was spanish politics and militaries saying they would bring out tanks onto the streets if catalans did self-determination referendum?

So, style, you state that you hate to be related with Spain due to a publication in mass media and social network comments?..

No, that's just an example of "spanish mind" about basques (and how shameful can it be sometimes). I could write more, but I don't want to post a huge large text like you did.

And I want to say a few words about nationalism. Nationalists always contrapose themselves from nazi. Like, "we don't want to harm any other nation, we just want our nation to prosper". Pure angels, right? Unfortunately, I have never seen any nationalist organization and/or movement which would really follow this. The vaunted nationalist unity is always based on hatred or intolerance towards "the others", "foreigners". Someone is always preventing them from building brave new world - insidious haters outside of "The Nation We Want To Prosper". Generally I am always very suspicious towards nationalists. The whole philosophy remains tainted (although it doesn't explicitly consist of hatred): why do you think that some people deserved to live better than others only because they got out of womb at the particular region of the Earth? What is "nation"? An artificial attribute to divide people even more. I won't definitely live until this term becomes obsolete, but at least I can dream of it.

Sorry you are wrong here. Basque Country is a good example of tolerance. Maybe you are thinking on 19th and 20th nationalisms, but we are on 21st. Our nationalism is "inclusive", because we understand we are in a globalized world but we don't want to lose our language and culture.

And your statement, style, can probably be applied to every single country (nation) in the world.

Why? Because in <country name> there is no difference between nationalism and terrorist (unless it's <country's titular nation> nationalism, "the only one good nationalism").

So, that's <country name>, full of hate.

Not in Scotland. All we want is voting our future like they did.

[Miau]

Finally a good serious debate about something that really matters  +1 for you.

Are you kidding me? You did amazing interpretation. Good job!

Can I give you another one? This sentence (or similar) is used to express the next idea:
 - "You can break the law to fight the power, but not use the violence".

An example of this: using illegal* (but democratic) referendum to gain independence.

Is that terrorism??

Or maybe terrorism was spanish politics and militaries saying they would bring out tanks onto the streets if catalans did self-determination referendum?

I didn't say breaking the law to achieve political objectives is terrorism. I said violence. Well, I'm not the one who said it, but Cambridge Dictionary:

terrorism
noun [ U ] UK ​ /ˈter.ər.ɪ.zəm/ US ​ /ˈter.ər.ɪ.zəm/
​
(threats of) violent action for political purposes:

What you said about tanks is such a crazy scene, but anyways, it wouldn't for a political purpose. It would be in order to enforce the law, which explicitly prohibits secession. Every state in the world resorts to force to enforce law when everything else fails. But for the moment everything else hasn't failed, so let's stick to reality.

No, that's just an example of "spanish mind" about basques (and how shameful can it be sometimes). I could write more, but I don't want to post a huge large text like you did.

1.- Every Spaniard has his own mind, there's no common Spanish mind. There are very closed-minded people and more progressive people, like in any country on the face of Earth.
2.- Your "Spanish mind" about Basques also includes "Spanish Basques mind" about themselves, since a large majority of the Basques (2.16 out of 2.42 million) are Spanish.

Sorry you are wrong here. Basque Country is a good example of tolerance. Maybe you are thinking on 19th and 20th nationalisms, but we are on 21st. Our nationalism is "inclusive", because we understand we are in a globalized world but we don't want to lose our language and culture.

I have to agree with you here. I don't think Basque nationalism leans towards isolation or old-fashioned radical patriotism.

Not in Scotland. All we want is voting our future like they did.

I guess you already know why the United Kingdom has the word United on its name. It's because before 1707 the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were two different independent countries (it wasn't the United Kingdom yet though, this name was given when other countries joined the Union). They both agreed to merge in a Union in which both countries would have the same legal status. This (or anything similar) never happened between Spain and the Basque Country, since most of the Basque Country has always been part of Spain, while Scotland is not part of England

[style!]

I didn't say breaking the law to achieve political objectives is terrorism. I said violence.

Ok, then that boy "seemed to be more supportive of terrorism" or... ?

What you said about tanks is such a crazy scene, but anyways, it wouldn't for a political purpose. It would be in order to enforce the law, which explicitly prohibits secession. Every state in the world resorts to force to enforce law when everything else fails. But for the moment everything else hasn't failed, so let's stick to reality.

The law is not necessarily good. So enforce law by that means is just the opposite of good.

1.- Every Spaniard has his own mind, there's no common Spanish mind. There are very closed-minded people and more progressive people, like in any country on the face of Earth.
2.- Your "Spanish mind" about Basques also includes "Spanish Basques mind" about themselves, since a large majority of the Basques (2.16 out of 2.42 million) are Spanish.

Ofc every person has his own mind, but there is common mind. Just take a look to the elections.

I guess you already know why the United Kingdom has the word United on its name. It's because before 1707 the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were two different independent countries (it wasn't the United Kingdom yet though, this name was given when other countries joined the Union). They both agreed to merge in a Union in which both countries would have the same legal status. This (or anything similar) never happened between Spain and the Basque Country, since most of the Basque Country has always been part of Spain, while Scotland is not part of England

Are you sure Basque Country has always been part of Spain? Or maybe Basque Country and Spain were also two different independent countries?

Yes, Kingdom of Navarre was independent kingdom until it's conquered. Kingdom of Navarre occupied different lands during its existence, but it covered all we consider Basque Country nowadays.

But... is there any agreement between Basque Country and Spain like Scotland and England? Oh, it is! I'm sure you know it, or them. The Fueros recognize our special status. This agreement included the "Foral Pass/Pase Foral", which allowed basques to reject the spanish law.

And about kingdoms... Lower Navarre was a kingdom until 1789, the year of French Revolution, meanwhile Higher Navarre was until 1841, when it became a province of Spain (through the "Ley Paccionada Navarra").

So... can we vote now??