Plan B
General => Suggestions => Closed => Topic started by: Aksel on July 05, 2018, 02:09:44 pm
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I know that here we are just players and server managers don't have any sensitive data about its users that can be used.
Well when most of communities protect their user's data because even if they dont want, the law forces them to.
I think everyone in samp community (except for new players) knows that in most of servers, admins can read player's private messages and here PlanB isnot an exception, Admins level 4 or higher can read all (/PM) CMD contenant, and even if an admin isnot online, the server send him all players private messages to his IRC BNC. and speaking about myself i really dont like the fact that people can read something that should be personnel between me and someone else and that's why i dont use it unless someone is greeting me and iprefer to use discord.
Once I was told by an Admin that some "admins" enjoy reading player's PMs its literally their hobby!!! Reading someone's else messages is illegal in many countries. And even if it isn't, this practice is heavily frowned upon. By doing this, you're invading user's privacy... Other point you might not know this too but Admins themselves dont use /PM command, they've an other private messaging command (Secret Private Message) and it contenant doesnot appear on IRC logs or they just use (/DUB) command.
I know this can be useful for admins in some cases when a ban evader/cheater joins game and start asking some fishy questions (just like the way how ahmed got banned). But you can definitely
1-limit this to level(0/1) players
2-limit /PM contenant to level 5 admins or higher(they are trustworthy)
3- just create a new private messaging cmd for players.
My second suggestion is non admins users shouldnt be allowed to see teamchat logs when they are on IRC, TPMs should be limited to players in game in that team
IRC global chat is more than enough for normal users, i dont see any excuse why IRC users can see that chat, why they can read it when they cant write on it? see? makes no sense and by doing this you'll not recieve reports about players leaking other team's info. It's so abusable i can just open IRC on my phone while playing and use other team informations that i see on IRC against them.
and by end of this topic these were just suggestions to improve user's experience and makes it safer. I'd definetly like to hear your opnoin and thoughts and any criticism is highly understandable!
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I agree with the privacy concept. "Private message" /pm is not that private since all administrators could see it. But i hardly believe they would do that.
And also +1 for team chat. To be honest,i also used my phone to read all the sensitive intel from the teams since there is no rule against it. And i'm pretty sure many of you did the same.
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Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
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I just like your IRC suggestion.
About your first suggestion:
Admins must have this power to govern players who wants to break rules or hax OR some other things.
I haven't seen any admin abuse their power in this case by showing players PMs.
They have the power to watch UNTILL they don't let other players know about it.
I think this is allowed for admins to have this ability.
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I do agree about this suggestion. Knowing that our messages are not completely private, specially the team chat because everyone can see it through IRC, that is why I prefer to use discord too.
But in fairness with the Admins, reading /pm is useful for them in some cases to catch a ban-evader (We all know there's alot of ban-evaders in the game specially old players who got permanently banned). However, those evaders already know that admins can track them through /pm. Making it somehow not a means to catch them. I know admins didn't really abuse these power since only few of them are active in-game.
In conclusion, making the Team Chat hidden from IRC is 100% good idea.
+1
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Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
Man... i said that it became some admin's hobby so you could imagine!
Do you like when someone gets your computer/phone and starts reading your messages with other people?
i mentioned that it can be useful to catch ban evaders, that's why i suggested to limit this to level 0/1 users!
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+1 gg Aksel :)
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Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
Man... i said that it became some admin's hobby so you could imagine!
Sounds somehow familiar to me ;D
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Do you like when someone gets your computer/phone and starts reading your messages with other people?
i mentioned that it can be useful to catch ban evaders, that's why i suggested to limit this to level 0/1 users!
[/quote]That's a different story Aksel.
Limiting is may be good but not too much.
If that's it then I give +1
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I really don't care about That Admins read My PM :0
who give a shit?
But let's give +1
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Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
Man... i said that it became some admin's hobby so you could imagine!
So I vote for a change.
+1
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About, The Private messages the admins themselves use /SMS command. Which is never recorded in logs(once skittles sent me when i was uc)
So +1 to privacy.
About IRC suggestion, it was suggested by someone some time ago(recenty) and i can pretty much see the hypocrisy of players who changed their minds after reading the author.
It was highly -1'd
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+1 for IRC. +1 for pm, coz sometimes it's just not worthy to tell the other player to switch to discord or some other communication app outside samp.
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I really don't care about That Admins read My PM :0
who give a shit?
But let's give +1
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I was told that they can also read your /dub messages. +1
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I was told that they can also read your /dub messages. +1
they can basically read everything you type inside that box, /dub *message*
is read as it is a command is being used.
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I was told that they can also read your /dub messages. +1
they can basically read everything you type inside that box, /dub *message*
is read as it is a command is being used.
The script can record everything typed in the console but it doesn't. Else admins will be seeing everyone's passwords, or storing them (just in case someone forgets his password, which has happened in past , and owners/admins couldn't tell the player his old password).
I have always heard that the script doesn't record /dub command inputs from the console so feel free to use it.
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PM Regulation Suggestion:
-1
If these has existed for years and there has been countless PM exchange from Numerous players and there hasn't been a case of Privacy Violation, then what more proof of responsibility does one need.
Admins should know what the fuck is going on.
Once I was told by an Admin that some "admins" enjoy reading player's PMs its literally their hobby!!!
Can I ask you the reliability of this statement?
1-limit this to level(0/1) players
I understand that Lvl2s are overall more reliable than Lvl0-1 due to Consistency. But anything below Lvl3 doesn't give a foolproof reliability level. But I don't trust all Lvl2s since morons like LoDs and VIP Aimbotters have existed. And for that I trust our Admins with monitoring them.
limit /PM contenant to level 5 admins or higher(they are trustworthy)
Lvl5s don't even appear too often,Jonne is only comes barely for a few hours per day and both Fimpen and Friauf are a rare sight to see.
Lvl4s are worthy enough for the job. I don't really doubt any Lvl4.
If anything, If this is accessible to Lvl3s then I am surely against it. Not as good enough to trust as Lvl4s.
Regardless of any of the concern and potential problems, there is a lack of a case of privacy violation.
These are Admins that we are talking about not normal players without any sort of responsibility approved by already responsible people.
IRC Suggestion:
Big +1
But it's already gonna be added soon.
[To be added]See team chat On IRC ? Time to chg it.
I don't think it's that much of a big deal as people are making it out to be, and I don't really believe there will be a lot of people that are monitoring the teamchat to learn the other team's strategy. Also, I still believe it has more of a positive impact on the community, for example people who aren't able to play can still keep in touch with the game like that, and have some sort of idea what's going on. But, as some people have pointed out, maybe it's better to not echo the teamchat at all, to prevent any abuse. We'll disable it in a future update.
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PlanB admins are spying on us? Are they leaking our privacy? Is PTP turning into Facebook? OHH FUCK!
I'd support only the IRC Suggestion.
I don't think admins or anyone would have time for reading 100+ PMs and Dubs and most of the time, if I talk in PM I use my local language.
Admins I challenge you to understand my fucking PMs. xD
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+1
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I have never been comfortable using private messages in Plan B for this reason. I really watch what I say because I always think that someone is reading it. And often someone is, and that's just not correct imo.
+1
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"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.
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I have never been comfortable using private messages in Plan B for this reason. I really watch what I say because I always think that someone is reading it. And often someone is, and that's just not correct imo.
+1
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Guys you need to get off the idea that admins enjoy reading PM's or anything like that. This ability is there for reasons stated above, all with the purpose of moderating the server.
Yes, it is possible for admins to be freaks and spend their day reading PMs, sitting at spawn. But I think I speak for (at least) the majority when I say we don't do this because 1. It's boring as hell and 2. We're not freaks.
What's more important is that all PMs (among other things) are sensitive information that cannot be shared or used in the public in any way. This rule is very strict and multiple admins have been demoted in the past for violating it, so you don't need to be suspicious or distrustful of admins.
Also, I second Lohit's reply
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"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.
How we will know that this feature is removed even though it is announced ?
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Admins do have access to a certain amount of sensitive player data. Its purpose is not to invade the privacy of the server's players, but to remove unwanted elements (cheating, rule breaking, ban evasion, scamming, harassment) from the server. For example, players are monitored ("spied") so they could be helped if they're stuck/bugged, or to determine whether they're guilty of cheating or breaking the rules. Also, if administrators weren't able to see players' IPs, exposing ban evaders would be next to impossible.
Reading private messages of players is also something admins are able to do. However, what I said above is likewise true for this ability. It helps admins in preventing violations such as excessive insulting, spamming, harassment, scamming, false representation (especially pretending to be a mod/admin) and /q jokes. These are the occasions when admins are truly "interested" in players' private messages. VIP players sometimes also take part in such acts. Apart from that, admins have too much of a great range of other duties to be peeking at every message. The kind of people who would make looking at players' messages a "hobby" usually do not make it into the admin team - especially with the current 3-month mod system in power.
Furthermore, leaking private information is considered to be the greatest violation of staff duty - even greater than blatant in-game abuse. It is grounds for permanent demotion. Staff members have been demoted for this reason in the past.
2-limit /PM contenant to level 5 admins or higher(they are trustworthy)
It would be helpful if you could provide arguments as to why you think level 4 admins are untrustworthy. If an admin shared yours or anyone else's private information, you are more than welcome to report that. As I have already mentioned, such actions are not tolerated in this server.
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PMs like these can be a good source of entertainment
[01:42:13] <DarwiN> {33CCFF}[22] {FFFFFF} /pm 16 BB RoSe I LOVE YOU <33333333 XDDDDDD :*
[01:42:18] <DarwiN> {33CCFF}[22] {FFFFFF}shit :o
[01:42:22] <Magic.> {CCCCCC}[9] {FFFFFF}Lol
[01:42:23] <[IDF]LP_> {CCCCCC}[0] {FFFFFF}well
so yeah the above person would clearly be offended when he gets to know that his every pm is known to admins (if they do read such stuff)
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It would be helpful if you could provide arguments as to why you think level 4 admins are untrustworthy. If an admin shared yours or anyone else's private information, you are more than welcome to report that. As I have already mentioned, such actions are not tolerated in this server.
1- Yes they do, back to old ptp, once COBRA had publicly leaked a discussion logs between Goldy and an other player. Everything he did is he replaced their ID by Mr.A and Mr.B , would you be comfortable if someone does this to you?
2- back to GgT + SLp vs NO + PPLV war, one of admins was leaking information, he was copying logs but he was telling us what others are saying or planning to do.
3- Lacerta used to share players PMs on Teamspeak server just to make fun of players.
Guys you need to get off the idea that admins enjoy reading PM's or anything like that. This ability is there for reasons stated above, all with the purpose of moderating the server.
Yes, it is possible for admins to be freaks and spend their day reading PMs, sitting at spawn. But I think I speak for (at least) the majority when I say we don't do this because 1. It's boring as hell and 2. We're not freaks.
What's more important is that all PMs (among other things) are sensitive information that cannot be shared or used in the public in any way. This rule is very strict and multiple admins have been demoted in the past for violating it, so you don't need to be suspicious or distrustful of admins.
Also, I second Lohit's reply
I don't want to mention names...
One year ago, there was 2 level 4 admins, Mr.A was ingame with me and was speaking with me on /PM about Mr.B and how he enjoys reading all users PMs... and in few hours Mr.B joined the game and he started a conversation with me saying that everything Mr.A said wasnot true.
My question was, how Mr.B knew that Mr.A was talking to me about Mr.B, if Mr.B didnot read our private conversation? see? its funny!!!!!
How we will know that this feature is removed even though it is announced ?
I was aware of this point but it's not hard to know!
Admins I challenge you to understand my fucking PMs. xD
Well that depends on person, most of people dont like, I myself i don't feel comfortable when i know that my information arenot protected or something i say can be used against me IRL
I can advise you to spend sometime on internet learning about these things and grantee to you that you wont like it.
Now I have one question for you, How would you react when you see someone sneaking on your phone reading your messages or when someone is spying on your phone calls?
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I support this suggestion.
1. It's not a matter of personal privacy, PTP isn't the place to talk about your personal life with relatives and friends. It's a matter of fairness. Admins are players as well, and ability to read PMs can give them an advantage in many occasions. And you can't really avoid this, because you don't know if it's privileged information until you have already read it.
2. Insulting and spamming via PM are none of admin's business since every player can choose whose messages to receive with /ignore and /blockpms.
3. In case you haven't read the original post, this is about making admins unable to read messages to/between levels 2+. Do you really think that /q jokes or admin impersonations is something that levels 2+ can be victims of?
4. The only occasion when this could be helpful is to determine if someone is covering up a ban evader. But, seriously, do we need such a drastic measure considering there has only been one ban (Ahmed's, as far as I know) for covering up a ban evader since this server was opened almost two years ago?
Now my own contributions to the suggestion:
1. Hide PMs to/between levels 1 with more than 10 hours online as well. I think this is a good number to determine when someone is a regular and, therefore, a bit more trustworthy than average.
2. Do not tell us if you decide to accept and implement this suggestion. Why would you do so? It's better to keep players controlling themselves via PMs if they think they are being watched, while the system becomes fairer by keeping privileged information away from admin-players.
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-1 Always loved reading drama and seeing pms showed people's' true colors but is also very useful for ban evaders. /Dub however should be hidden completely
-1 For the second suggestion because that would be impossible to code unless you linked things together, user/data wise.
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1- Yes they do, back to old ptp, once COBRA had publicly leaked a discussion logs between Goldy and an other player. Everything he did is he replaced their ID by Mr.A and Mr.B , would you be comfortable if someone does this to you?
2- back to GgT + SLp vs NO + PPLV war, one of admins was leaking information, he was copying logs but he was telling us what others are saying or planning to do.
3- Lacerta used to share players PMs on Teamspeak server just to make fun of players.
All of these incidents occurred a year and a half or more ago and no similar incidents have been recorded since. Also, the aforementioned staff members are no longer a part of the staff team. I fully understand your skepticism, but such misuse of sensitive information is fairly easily discovered and dealt with.
1. It's not a matter of personal privacy, PTP isn't the place to talk about your personal life with relatives and friends. It's a matter of fairness. Admins are players as well, and ability to read PMs can give them an advantage in many occasions. And you can't really avoid this, because you don't know if it's privileged information until you have already read it.
I agree, occasionally you can acquire information that can give you an advantage against your in-game opponents. But why is it fair for level 5's to read private messages and not for level 4's? Hypothetically, they could also use this information to outmanuever their opponents. Also, considering level 4's have access to this information, why do they (past and present level 4's) rarely appear in Top 10 statistics lists or have impressive K/D ratios? Because it's very far away from the top of our priority list.
2. Insulting and spamming via PM are none of admin's business since every player can choose whose messages to receive with /ignore and /blockpms.
I believe that players should be discouraged from taking part in such actions, to make it clear to them that they are still breaking the rules - whether the players that receive such PMs are ignoring them or not. The system sometimes mutes such players for half a minute, but this is far from a discouraging measure. If the system could be modified to give longer and longer mutes with each spamming, then maybe this problem could be partially amended. However, players that flame/insult/harass/scam in PMs don't necessarily need to be spamming mindlessly and therefore, the system can't recognize it as rule breaking. Also, if this isn't level 4 admins' business, why should it be level 5's business (especially considering they are not necessarily very active and are not expected to be)?
3. In case you haven't read the original post, this is about making admins unable to read messages to/between levels 2+. Do you really think that /q jokes or admin impersonations is something that levels 2+ can be victims of?
Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean that such players shouldn't be warned and monitored. Again, it would be great if the system could take care of it on its own, but I just don't see it.
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But why is it fair for level 5's to read private messages and not for level 4's?
It's not fair for level 5+, I didn't say it was haha. In fact, I don't think level 5+ need access to PMs either. After all, the only thing access to PM is actually required is to catch players covering up ban evaders, which has only happened once in server history. So, in my honest opinion, only Jonne (or even nobody!) is more than enough personnel to deal with it.
Also, considering level 4's have access to this information, why do they (past and present level 4's) rarely appear in Top 10 statistics lists or have impressive K/D ratios?
I didn't say it was unfair enough to take you to the Top 10 haha. My point is that the cure is worse than the disease. You have a group of 13 people receiving privileged information every hour of every day for... for what? To catch a minor rule-breaker once every few months, or even years?
However, players that flame/insult/harass/scam in PMs don't necessarily need to be spamming mindlessly and therefore, the system can't recognize it as rule breaking
Why would the system recognize flame/insult/harass/scam as rulebreaking (https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=136.0)? It is not rulebreaking (https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=136.0).
Also, if this isn't level 4 admins' business, why should it be level 5's business (especially considering they are not necessarily very active and are not expected to be)?
I didn't say anything about the level! I said admins. Level 5's are also admins, head of the rest of admins, but admins (someone who administrates de server, by definition) :)
I still don't understand why private message spam would bother you, a third person that has nothing to do. It may bother the person receiving it, and that person has all the power to stop it at any time.
According to your logic, when you get a cat and it pees on your living room carpet every morning, it will be Ok if I break into your flat and remove the cat. After all, you aren't the one who decides if you are willing to put up with the cat or not, are you, huh?
Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean that such players shouldn't be warned and monitored.
I have never seen anyone playing a /q joke on a regular player but, if I saw it, it would probably be obvious that it's happening in a friendly fashion.
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just how can you be sure that mods arent seeing pms too?
"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.
yes lol, just like how spying-banning works. i think Karg as an jobless hobo guy
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hey pal.
This ain't the only server with this bs.
Deal with it 8)
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+1 for only letting the level 5s read the pms but it is still useful to find players who is ban evading or for the one who is covering the ban evader. I don't think they will do anything about it but it really uncomfortable knowing more than 1 person is reading your privet messages.
For the teamchat +1 but I think madman an I made an suggestion about it an they didn't do anything about it.
GG Aksel 8)
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+1 for only letting the level 5s read the pms but it is still useful to find players who is ban evading or for the one who is covering the ban evader. I don't think they will do anything about it but it really uncomfortable knowing more than 1 person is reading your privet messages.
For the teamchat +1 but I think madman an I made an suggestion about it an they didn't do anything about it.
GG Aksel 8)
Can i have your autograph?
You are the worst youtuber ever.
Best*
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@Mia, in your first post in this topic you stated that you fully agree with Aksel's suggestion and didn't explicitly disagree about the PM content being limited to level 5's only, which is why I assumed that by "admins" you meant level 4 admins. Alright, sure, if PMs were to be disabled for admins, the only objectively fair thing would be for them to be disabled for every single staff member.
Things like scamming or begging are not in the official rule list, but people have been warned (some even banned) in extreme cases for the nuisance it caused to other players. Flaming/insulting are also not officially included in the rules list (I expressed myself badly), but they can be indicative of a "fishy" behavior, as Aksel describes it.
Regular players are a bit of a "wild card". Most of them are perfectly honest players, but some are ban evaders that manage to rack up some hours without getting banned and some turn out to be common hackers. I don't think 10 hours of playtime is enough for them to be considered "trusted".
What if the "peeing cats" could be taught not to pee in other "houses" instead of having to be removed all the time?
In any case, if the vast majority of the server finds this practice problematic, I do suppose that employing certain restrictions (not as severe as the ones proposed in this topic) could be useful as an act of compromise. Though, since players would not be able to actually see these restrictions, they'd have to take the admins' word for it. On the other hand, not announcing anything could create an impression of server staff's indifference towards the players' wishes. Trust issues remain, any way you do it.
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+1 for only letting the level 5s read the pms but it is still useful to find players who is ban evading or for the one who is covering the ban evader. I don't think they will do anything about it but it really uncomfortable knowing more than 1 person is reading your privet messages.
For the teamchat +1 but I think madman an I made an suggestion about it an they didn't do anything about it.
GG Aksel 8)
Can i have your autograph?
You are the worst youtuber ever.
Best*
...
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just how can you be sure that mods arent seeing pms too?
"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.
yes lol, just like how spying-banning works. i think Karg as an jobless hobo guy
Strive not to think in future. It's just not working with you.
@Mia, just like you have suggested numerous of things in the past ( cmds, notifications and etc), to be added to level 3 in order to make their job easier, level 4s have some things to make their job easier as well, and being able to monitor PMs is definitely one of them. Everyday we see regular players complaing about how slow admins/mods are handling reports. Believe me, if you want to take this from us, we'd become even slower in our decisions. I suppose you're going to ask me how this is helping us. Well some of the things were revealed in previous replies, but there are more, and believe or not, those things helped a lot in many decisions that have been taken.
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+1
i hate when Carg can read all my pms.
this is the first time ever aksel write something useful here.
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Neutral
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+1
i hate when Carg can read all my pms.
this is the first time ever aksel write something useful here.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1jDvQyhGd3L2g/giphy.gif)
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One thing is sure,Carg is spying our PM's. Beware when he is online. Always use /dub
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+1
i hate when Carg can read all my pms.
this is the first time ever aksel write something useful here.
Stuped, ofc im gonna read them if you pm me lol
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-1 for the first suggestion due to the reasons stated above by Nikola, Lohit and Uthar.
+1 for the second suggestion as I saw my beloved enemies leaking my own messages, very annoying.
-Fares
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"admins don't have time to read 100+ useless PMs"
Trust me they do. I can bet that if you were admin and if u were bored babysitting those securities at armour, u'd choose to camp at civ spawn instead and read people's PM instead, which i don't think is wrong or risky but it is still creepy and uncomfortable to even send PMs when you know someone can read them anyway.
How we will know that this feature is removed even though it is announced ?
Coz there no reason they would want to lie about removing it(power is in their hands to accept or deny the suggestion anyway) and i can trust them in that situation. At least it will be a pseudo effect. Better than having this thought that someone might be too bored to read others' drama(like matt said he loves doing XD)
In current situation, admins have the ability to read pms and some of them might ague they don't read personal pms thay don't threaten the server/rules, but I can't trust when they say that. Note that I'm not saying they are irresponsible to leak any private data but only that it is uncomfortable to know that someone is reading your PMs.
It is just human nature..
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Hmmmmmmmm. But do you really think this happens everytime?
Man... i said that it became some admin's hobby so you could imagine!
Yes, we don't sleep at night, we read players' private messages from the whole day on a group conversation of all admins. And when there is some funny one, we leak it to the mod team so we can all laugh together.
(http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/seriously-gif-13.gif)
About the suggestion itself, I personally keep supporting this feature being removed or limited as it infringes the privacy of players.
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@Mia, just like you have suggested numerous of things in the past ( cmds, notifications and etc), to be added to level 3 in order to make their job easier
Well, I don't think that any of the suggestions I made could give me strategic advantage in-game. Reading PMs does.
Believe me
According to your colleague Nikola, access to PMs allows you to monitor insulting, flaming (which are both allowed) and spamming (which spam victims can stop themselves). According to your colleague Skittles, this suggestion should be implemented. So I don't think there are many reasons to "believe you", as your reply seems to be based on personal interest rather than on facts. Or, if it is based on facts, you and your colleagues live in different realities.
@Mia, in your first post in this topic you stated that you fully agree with Aksel's suggestion and didn't explicitly disagree about the PM content being limited to level 5's only, which is why I assumed that by "admins" you meant level 4 admins. Alright, sure, if PMs were to be disabled for admins, the only objectively fair thing would be for them to be disabled for every single staff member.
Well, if Jonne considers that leaving PMs out of everyone's reach isn't prudent and that at least the three level 5's should have access to them, I personally think that would be much fairer (4.33 times fairer) than having 13 people with access.
Things like scamming or begging are not in the official rule list, but people have been warned (some even banned) in extreme cases for the nuisance it caused to other players.
I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.
What if the "peeing cats" could be taught not to pee in other "houses" instead of having to be removed all the time?
Exactly. But that's up to you, as you are the owner of the cat and you are the one who suffers the consequences of its behavior. It's not up to me, that I'm a stranger and whatever happens to your living room carpet doesn't affect me in any sort of way.
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someone have 5 hours to write bs everyday, nice.
Keep going America!!
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@Mia, then half of the mod features should be removed because it gives them strategic advantage ingame, and some can't be trusted.
As for bringing personal interest bullshit, it looks like you're the one expressing his personal interest and complexes over the forums. You can't blame us (admins) for thinking differently and giving you facts which I did, but I guess that you just can't respect other's opinions. I just don't know whats wrong with you and where that anger comes from.
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As far as i know it is illegal for everybody to read pm including admins only the server owner can have acces to that sensible data but thats based only in my country i dont know where the server is hosted from
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I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.
RAGE!
RAGE DEMON!!
*Hides in a cave*
One tip, going vs admins is bad idea.
I'm not asslicking, but they are some tough son of a bit*ches, they can rage ban u, in 0.5.1.3.1 sec.
And you can't do anything.
Don't warn me u nabs, i'm just honest..
actually, warn me, idgaf, i'm not pussy.
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I thought that one of the reasons Plan B was created was to get rid of admins that enforced their own rules that weren't written anywhere. It would be sad to find out everything has remained the same. I hope I have misunderstood you.
In extreme cases, scamming and begging can have elements of serial spamming of players' PMs and the main chat, which is what happened with those players (I wasn't a part of the admin team then, but I support the staff's actions). Behavior like this doesn't need to be a punishable offense by itself, but it may still have wider implications. For example, asking if there are admins online in the main chat or in PMs is obviously a perfectly legal thing to do. However, it may imply that that particular player could try to hack/cheat or generally break the rules.
As for the supposed in-game advantage this may give admins - I believe it is being exaggerated. Firstly, players discuss their movements/playing strategies in team-chat (or even using clients, such as TeamSpeak or Discord) much more often than in PMs. Secondly, even if players suddenly decided to use PMs for discussing their gaming strategies, the only real advantage an admin could acquire would be if that admin participated in massive chases and clashes with another group of players. Those chases/clashes are usually a result of clan wars in PTP - something responsible and diligent admins have absolutely no time for or interest in.
Exactly. But that's up to you, as you are the owner of the cat and you are the one who suffers the consequences of its behavior. It's not up to me, that I'm a stranger and whatever happens to your living room carpet doesn't affect me in any sort of way.
The thing is, is that you don't necessarily need to remove the cat since I'm responsible for it and I have the power to remove it. However, if you're responsible for the well-being of the people in the neighborhood and you're aware that this cat has urinated in my house, you can prevent the cat from doing it (or even worse things) in other people's houses. Yes, I may have to sacrifice a part of my privacy, but it's for the well-being of the whole neighborhood.
TL;DR, to sum up (since my fingers are getting tired from replying here :D): My impression is that the most common reason for the players to support the restrictions is that they feel that admins have particular devious benefits or even pleasure from reading their PMs. I fully understand that since there have been cases of misuse of the information gathered in PMs in the past. However, none of the current admins have a history of such behavior. Furthermore, this server is very open to suggestions/complaints. Hell, you can even insult the whole staff and ask them to participate in collective coprophagia (https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=2552.0) while you're at it and your opinion will still be heard and considered. That goes double for the players' privacy. As i have mentioned, leaking private information is not something that is forgiven here.
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If PM is made private, then it shouldn't be a level 2 and up change. VIPs aren't more trustworthy just because they paid for advantages over other players (nor are the VIPs who donated in the spirit of helping the server).
After all, the only thing access to PM is actually required is to catch players covering up ban evaders, which has only happened once in server history.
"Only happened once in server history" is a pretty bold statement. I am a complete privacy nut (for an American- I think I would be more normal in Europe), but I can see the utility in admins being able to read PMs. I have "made friends" with hackers to get them banned by the anticheat when admins were not available, then brought attention to the PMs they'd send me when an admin was in game to get them more permanently removed. If PMs were totally private, it would be only my word against a hacker.
Anything that says "private" should truly be private. I think at least "private message" should be reworded as "personal message" to reflect that. I'm not sure how I feel about making them actually private, though. What are you guys sending to each other that is so sensitive?
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We won't be taking away the ability to read PMs from admins right now. We have very strict policies around this, so admins can absolutely not leak or talk about PMs with non admins. So, if you see this happening, or have a suspicion someone is using your PMs, please let us know as soon as possible. I think PMs are still very useful to catch ban evaders, as in some extreme cases, the only way we were able to find a ban evader was because of PMs. This does happen more frequently than you think, especially with environments where people are hard to keep apart (internet cafes etc). We will however make it more clear that admins are able to read PMs, and as YoMama suggested, we shouldn't refer to them as 'private messages'.