[Added]Vehicle surfing changes

[Srex_Zangetsu]

How about we get the ability,as cops,to /arrest [number] a terrorist and they accept by /arrest themselves,and drive with the cop,and end up in jail inside the cop spawn?
Then the passenger driving with the opposite class would be allowed xD jk

[Altus_Demens]

Good job, much appreciated! However,

so that, the situation that Popcornz was in wouldn't be punished for

why? I think that warnings or a small jail time would work well in this situation. If you remain it completely allowed, civilians will be the only class who can leave a fight they are engaged in (even if they don't shoot back; you are engaged in a fight even if you remain passive when someone attacks you) by means of abusing the game mechanics. I don't see a single reason to give this unique privilege to civilians, particularly because "civilian attacking good guys and civilian attacking bad guys" are just imaginary concepts which have nothing to do with the rules.

If anybody agrees, don't remain silent, please.

[Saurabh]

Civilians are not team players and can choose to side with anyone they want. They can damage anyone and be damaged by anyone.

^ That's what the idea of civilian class has always been. Now that the civ can't damage certain team players while surfing,  I think it is fair enough that they get this "privelege" of choosing not to engage with those team players and escape. It is a fair trade.

With the new system, a civ is no longer a threat and can't use your teammate's vehicle as cover while damaging you .
So it always has to be the team player that is obsessed with killing the civilian, and if you are one of those, you gotta find other way around.

[COBRA]

Civilians are not team players and can choose to side with anyone they want. They can damage anyone and be damaged by anyone.

^ That's what the idea of civilian class has always been. Now that the civ can't damage certain team players while surfing,  I think it is fair enough that they get this "privelege" of choosing not to engage with those team players and escape. It is a fair trade.

With the new system, a civ is no longer a threat and can't use your teammate's vehicle as cover while damaging you .
So it always has to be the team player that is obsessed with killing the civilian, and if you are one of those, you gotta find other way around.

Well said, that's the point of civilians which Altus still didn't get yet.

[YoMama]

Does no one care about how OP jumping on someone's car and shooting them through the roof is? Everyone here is talking about how it would be terrible if we can't do that, but I think it's ridiculous. There is no good way to counter it, particularly since it's hard to even passenger DB someone on the roof. The person doing it doesn't even have to be very good to pull it off. It's a great example of how the GM is hostile to driving at the moment. I think it shouldn't give damage to the driver/passengers, only the car.

Civilians are not team players and can choose to side with anyone they want. They can damage anyone and be damaged by anyone.

I think that's kind of the point though, they can't be damaged by anyone on top of a teammate's car. If I'm alone on an NRG and a civilian on top of a teammate's car is shooting at me, there isn't anything I can do with drivebying to stop it. There also isn't anything the driver can do about it, if they even notice, so they get smeared by the person on top. Not to mention that it only takes one bullet to shoot out a tire (and I have been fucked as President by this multiple times, often a civilian on top of their clanmate's car).

I think a lot of this wouldn't be as big of an issue if civilians weren't allowed to use snipers-- it lets them do much more damage in situations like this. I also think intent is important here-- a terrorist might be on a car to cheat, or they may be jumping on an opponent's car as a strategy. Does the opponent stay near their teammates with someone hostile to them on their roof? If so, they're equally culpable.

With the new system, a civ is no longer a threat and can't use your teammate's vehicle as cover while damaging you

This gamemode is not and never has been about civilians. It's about protecting or attacking the President, not keeping civilians, who have the benefit of being able to attack anyone, competitive.

[Saurabh]

Does no one care about how OP jumping on someone's car and shooting them through the roof is? Everyone here is talking about how it would be terrible if we can't do that, but I think it's ridiculous. There is no good way to counter it, particularly since it's hard to even passenger DB someone on the roof. The person doing it doesn't even have to be very good to pull it off. It's a great example of how the GM is hostile to driving at the moment. I think it shouldn't give damage to the driver/passengers, only the car.

I think that's part of Gta, isn't it? People being shot at while they are swimming is OP, people being chainsawed when they enter/exit vehicle is OP. You can't remove/tweak all of them as per what each player wants, can you?
Disabling surfing was NOT a solution to all this civ thingy, and I don't see any good reason to discuss about this 'shooting players through car roof' here. Just my thought^

Civilians are not team players and can choose to side with anyone they want. They can damage anyone and be damaged by anyone.

I think that's kind of the point though, they can't be damaged by anyone on top of a teammate's car. If I'm alone on an NRG and a civilian on top of a teammate's car is shooting at me, there isn't anything I can do with drivebying to stop it. There also isn't anything the driver can do about it, if they even notice, so they get smeared by the person on top. Not to mention that it only takes one bullet to shoot out a tire (and I have been fucked as President by this multiple times, often a civilian on top of their clanmate's car).

I guess you haven't read Jonnes's replies(?) .
https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=6150.msg54663#msg54663
A civ surfing on top of terro driven vehicle will have his bullets disabled against other terrorists, similar for surfing over cops/swat driven vehicle. Also, you won't be able to damage that civ over your teammate's vehicle as well. That's the fair trade I was talking about. If a civ is not allowed to damage the team player, that person shouldn't be allowed to damage the civ as well, fair right?
And Altus was suggesting against this, proposing that the teamplayer should be able to kill the civ anyway even if the civ doesn't engage. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It is fair that the civ gets this privelege of staying passive and be friendly. Ignore the civ and get going, or try to bring the civ off your teammate's car if you want him dead.

In short, civilian is now free to choose whether he wants to stay friendly or not. If he engages, and surfs on your teammate's car to escape, then that's punishable.

So no, you won't get smeared by the civ on top of your teammate's vehicle(bullets disabled). BUT civ can surely kill you from top of your vehicle though. So if you want your teammates to help you fight that civ on top of your vehicle,  you get out of vehicle and let the civ be shot at.

With the new system, a civ is no longer a threat and can't use your teammate's vehicle as cover while damaging you

This gamemode is not and never has been about civilians. It's about protecting or attacking the President, not keeping civilians, who have the benefit of being able to attack anyone, competitive.

I didn't meant to imply that this gamemode revolves around civilians. I only made a point about what civilian class is about i.e damage anyone, be damaged by anyone.
And the 'benefit' is compromised now, fairly, because civ can't damage certain people in certain case now, and those people can't damage either. Fair enough imo.

I think you missed the whole point of why this surf ban was implemented, it was NOT to make civilians competitive! It was the opposite, it was implemented to stop civilians from damaging teamplayers while surfing/riding vehicle of their team member, which was terrible.

"With this new system, a civ surfing on your teammate's car is no longer a threat unless you obsessively try to lure him into a fight on ground"