Rules and admins

[Magic]

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[LPCOLTER]

Cmon Relax and this is just a game 

Oh Fuck you
Admins, do we have a dignity here?
Admins Do we have a Democratic or Dictatorship Type of Owners or Admins?

[Uthar_Smith]

Our server's community can be compared to a real life society. Players are the people and the staff team is basically each of the three main powers, they are judges, police officers and politicians.

Although the two systems are similar, this doesn't mean that we can actually be as professional as real life societies. This is just a gaming server, but you're acting like it's an actual country you live in, whining about every one of the staff team's methods and measures which aren't perfect. In the first post you basically took the rules list and wrote an essay, concluding that none of the rules make any sense. Do you think anyone will take you seriously if you do something like this? You're being extremely unrealistic, this is not how we fix problems in a community that consists of only hobbyists.

If you want something to be done about specific issues, stick to the point, keep it simple, propose possible solutions and above all; do not whine unnecessarily about unrealistic things. I think it's safe to say that apart from yourself, nobody is interested in them.

TL;DR This is a gaming community, we don't need to be as professional as you might want. If you want particular problems to be fixed, simply adress them, propose solutions without whining so much about your "political views" within this community and accept it when nobody agrees with you.

[YoMama]

If you think that i am a liar, that i am "exaggerate" the facts, i WILL prove YOU in the second topic that it is not "not malicious actions". I will do it because you are one of a very few persons i respect, and not even because of your skills. I will prove that they are doing it exactly "malicious".

...That rules are "not a bad thing" only when you have normal admins. My point is that admins are not "normal".
I just blamed them (with names) on lie, abuse and everything, and they even do not feel a need to explain their actions.
As i said, you need to wait for another topic, if you think that everything in this topic is "misunderstanding".

I'll be interested to see what you have to say, then. I'm not saying that no admin ever abuses, I just think you're taking every action too personally without giving people a fair chance. If they were really as malicious as you're making them sound, then it seems like they would have given you more of a punishment than just giving you warnings in game.

That said, I think there are often better ways of handling rule enforcement, but they involve more communication.

Another false statement.

Hacking is something that an admin doesn't really need to consult an offender about, but as you've pointed out, the rules are interpreted differently by different people. All I'm saying is that in more cases admins should actually talk to players about their behavior before they start flashing messages on their screens and using their admin commands.

They have no rights to judge ANYONE for how he is playing gamemode.
THERE IS NO SINGLE STATEMENT IN THE SECURITY RULE TO JUDGE THEM.
My point about duty rule is very clear, and admins, they only ADDITION for the rules, but they act like THE RULES are only the aaddition to them.

I understand your point, but you and I both can look at a security player and usually get a pretty good idea of whether he's basically doing his duty. If it's not obvious, more observation and thought is necessary- I feel like some admins need to work on this. With your SF stadium example, all it would have taken would be to look at why you might be attacking civilians in the first place (because they were sniping the president). If it's still not obvious, just asking you how your actions were consistent with your duty would prevent a lot of forum posts.

Occasionally, I think you cross the line when you waste too much time on someone far away, but it's a tactical error, not willfully ignoring your duty.

I am "wasting time with someone" only when it is obvious for me that i can not just take a bike and drive away.

Fair enough, I guess it's usually different for me because I die pretty quickly once I've lost a vehicle.

[Alcor]

one of the reasons i stopped reading this forum is those long posts. I don't remember it being like this. Jesus..

[YoMama]

one of the reasons i stopped reading this forum is those long posts. I don't remember it being like this. Jesus..

-1

[City Wok]

Easy, it's not a democracy

and all your complaining always make me think of this:

[Nikola]

Alright, what do we have were... Let's go point by point.

1. You need to stay with him - I agree that it is a rather short-sighted way of determining the quality of security duty performance simply by checking the position of a certain player, which is why the monitoring of suspected duty disobeyers should be carried out with more thought - or those duties should be adjusted or reformed altogether. If you feel that you have been wrongly punished (not warned, as warnings can also be inquiries into your actions), you can always make a report. Whatever you want to believe - the staff member that punished you would not be your judge, jury and executioner. Your situation would be considered thoroughly by multiple higher-ranked admins.

2. Securities should protect the president to the best of their abilities. - You are nitpicking about the phrasing of this rule. No one expects you to be a master grenadier or to have the weapons accuracy of James Bond. Simply, your intention to protect the president should be clear and visible. Gaming skills of a staff member have nothing to do with it. But again, this is not something that can be determined in a period of 10 seconds.

3. Your duty is to protect president at all cost. - See the previous paragraph.

4. Unless he gives you another order. - Your duty revolves around serving the president and his needs. If he has any specific requests about how you should protect him, you are to obey him - even if you don't like his tactics or way of playing. This is partly what "at all costs" means.

 Rule number 1. No hacking/cheating. You don't have access to admin logs and therefore you can only see a half of the full picture when suspecting a player of hacking. Even if you are 100 percent sure that someone is hacking, there is always, and I mean always, a possibility that you might be wrong - especially if you don't have all the necessary data that the logs provide. This is why hackers are usually never punished after a quick glance, but are rather carefully examined.

Rule number 2. No bug abusing. Since PTP is a TDM server, this has always applied mostly to bugs that would provide you with an unfair advantage in combat, such as 2-shooting and C-bugging (but problems regarding these bugs have been resolved). RADding is something that would benefit you in races (which are considered minigames in this server) and possibly when running away from or chasing your opponent. But yes, I believe that the list of allowed/disallowed bugs should be a tad expanded.

 Rule number 3. No death evasion by any means or ways. This usually applies to using animations, reclassing or quitting (the issues regarding the last two are now resolved) to evade imminent death. The specific bug that you mentioned is somewhat of a grey area and its legality should be discussed and shown in a potentially updated allowed/disallowed bug list.

 Rule number 5. No teamshooting/spawnkilling This had to with bugs in the anti-spawnkill system. As far as I can see, you don't lose spawn protection without leaving the spawn now. In addition, you get an extra time of about five seconds after you leave the spawn to prevent spawn-campers from killing you instantly. I believe Jonne wasn't aware of the bug in the system at that time and staff members essentially aren't expected to enforce this rule by themselves, as the system takes care of the job.

Rule number 8. No map change forcing. IRC logs are crucial at showing the intention of the player in this situation because you can see whether a player had a timeout or quit manually. And there aren't exactly a lot of reasons to manually quit the game right after becoming the president and immediately come back besides wanting to change the map.

Rule number 9. No nicks faking. (no faking admins nicks). In my eyes, this was an honest error in judgement on Yash's part and those errors happen to all of us from time to time. They are not of malicious nature, they aren't mean to humiliate or ridicule anyone.

Rule number 12. Protecting team is not allowed to jack the president. Security members now get slapped if they try to jack the president, so this has been fixed.

  Rule number 13. No advertising other server. As far as I now, this only applies to advertising in the main chat or team chats. Private messages are, well, private and their content is visible to the players who are messaging each other. It may be a problem if a person is PMing everyone, though.

About "fake reporting" - in 99 percent of all cases, there is no way to clearly determine whether a player has made an invalid report with a bad intention. Maybe in extreme cases, when the reports are fairly nebulous and utterly absurd, but these occasions are very rare.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that you stated at the beginning that the purpose of your topic is to "feed admins their own shit", and yet you demand answers from those very same admins. You are not in any position to demand anything from the people you provoke and belittle. If you "feed them shit", as you colorfully expressed yourself, you can usually expect the same in return. With that in mind, I'd say the "retarded admins" have been more than generous to you so far.

[Faro0s]

Holy shit too many essays.

[SoLoD]

"No teamshooting/spawnkilling" - Which means, using melee weapons inside spawn area to gain kills, is an obvious rulebreak. Clarify that, or start punishing players according to in-game rules we have.
I'm surprised no one makes a big deal of this;

First of all, this rule is very "clear" already.
As i said, it is not only about 90% of all vips and admins breaking this rule, but abusing a very obvious PTP bug about melee weapons. So, when i blame them (and i know that the punishment for abusing bugs IS BAN, i was banned for "abusing bugs" even when i was just riding bike as civil around the map, and when you are doing it against someone to kill him, it IS a reason to be banned without a doubt) and they are not even react to it, and even a 10%-admins that are not involved into this abuse are saying to "relax", i have nothing but a question: "why there is not a single admin to come here and say that he understands what a problem is". Not a single one when it is obvious that every single admin on this server KNOWS about this situation. Obvious, that if he will admit it, everyone who was doing it (and still doing it now) will be banned, and as i said you will need to ban 90% of "admin staff" too.

With your SF stadium example, all it would have taken would be to look at why you might be attacking civilians in the first place (because they were sniping the president). If it's still not obvious, just asking you how your actions were consistent with your duty would prevent a lot of forum posts.

First of all, admin told me in the topic that i attacked civils without a reason. He did not asked me a shit, the only thing he did was a LIE from the very beginning of the topic. And after that civil mad e his post (even he said that i attacked them because they were sniping president), admin did nothing.
And that was not only lie from that admin, he said that i was not using rustler to get to the hill, but was chasing that civils, when i know that the only reason for me to crush a rustler was because there is not a single chance for me to kill 2 full armored civils with snipers with rustler. And i am pointing your attention that he was telling ME what i was doing BEFORE he received a report. When it is obvious that admin can not react to a /report before this /report arrive to him. So, this is why he do not know what i was doing and this is why he lies to pretend that he knows what i was doing.

You're being extremely unrealistic, this is not how we fix problems in a community that consists of only hobbyists.

"We"? I am not a part of your "we". So, do you think that "i am being unrealistc" is a reason for admins to ignore the facts i`ve listed here? Am i "extremely unrealistic" when i am telling admin to show me exactly part of the "duty rule" when he is "punishing" me for it? Because "security /duty" is only a name of this rule. Like a "no abusing bugs". When you ban someone for "abusing bugs", you are telling him that he was banned for "abusing cbug" or "abusing bike jump bug". When you ban someone for "hacking", you are telling him that he was banned for "health hack" or "no reload". And when it comes to "duty rule", you are telling me that it is "unrealistic"? The only unrealistic thing here is to point on a single statement in this rule, because as i said there is no statement that i can actually break.

Altus telling me that i am a bad boy.

Let me tell you a story. The only topic i wanted to make was a second topic. But it took weeks and months for me to go through an ignorance from admins. Ignoring me, telling me that i am a liar... So, when i was doing my "investigation", the only important thing for me was to understand how "admin staff" is doing their job. Not even to make a topic.
But as i said, it took a very very long time to "force" admins to do anything. So, i started to look where is the foundation of that "pile of shit". A shit that admins were throwing to my face weeks after weeks. So, when i said at the very beginning of this topic about "shit", i said that this shit is your shit. Only facts are mine. Facts that i took out from YOUR pile of shit.
After 2nd topic you can come here again, read 1st topic again and them you will tell me, if i am really acting like a "kid". You will tell me if my attitude to admins is unjustifiably harsh.

If you really want to change something, please, do two things:

You are very very wrong. Do not try to swap direction of this topic.
This topic is all about facts of abuse, lie, ignorance from admins. And i will get my answers from them.
Because when i blame admin and he is not even feel a need to explain his actions... Well, it is obvious there is no point to discuss about "change" anything with him.

The Spawnkilling rule
Personally, I don't see no problems here. It is impossible to deal damage to the person who is under the spawn protection. We have another scriptwise restriction: you can't deal damage with ranged weapons if you are under the spawn protection youself. But it is a different thing! I don't see a contradiction here. As I said many times, I like the tendention of preventing the possibility of rulebreaking rather than punishing for the consequences. The soulless script is equally fair to everyone. Ideally, the rulebreaking would be totally impossible, and no admins nor bans would be needed.

I am not sure if you read my topic.
Let me explain it to you one more time.
Months ago, when i made a report about "stephanie", i reported next thing: i was killed many time when i was under spawn protection. Then, Jonne came and shown me a logs. In that logs you can see that somehow i lost my spawn protection. And i know that i was standing still in the spawn. So, it was a bug and i know that i was not only person who reported that shit. For that time i was not even know that stephanie WAS UNDER SPAWN PROTECTION TOO. So, that was not only a abusing 1 bug, but 2 bugs.
1 bug was about when someone lost his protection without leaving the spawn.
2 bug was (and we still have it) when someone who is under spawn protection is doing a damage.

Now, lets get back to "present time".
You, admins, have made a system, and this system has 2 directions to work:
1. Nobody can do a damage to you when you are under spawn protection (standing in the spawn area).
2. You can not do a damage to anyone when you under spawnprotection. (you even receive a message when you are trying to attack, that "NO DAMAGE WHEN YOU ARE UNDER SPAWN PROTECTION").

Now, we all know that you CAN do a damage when you are under spawn protection by ABUSING a bug ("melee weapons" bug). I am pointing your attention that it is NOT a GTA SA bug or SAMP bug.
It is a PTP bug. So, when you look at "no bug abusing" rule, even if there is no full list of ALL GTA SA AND SAMP BUGS, it is obvious that this bug is not allowed, because there is no logic for ptp scripter to create this bug on purpose.

So, i do not know if it is a surprise for you, but 90% of all vips and admins ARE CONTINUOUSLY BREAKING TWO RULES: RULE ABOUT BUG ABUSING AND RULE ABOUT SPAWNKILLS.

[IDAN]

Just rework about New Rules and New /Duty

Solod if you have problems with admins just report them to Jonne,Sinple as that.

There is no server that he complete 100% OK. try to learn it.

[LPCOLTER]

Solod, Yes they do kill in spawn but only when the person has lost spawn protection, staying in spawn after going and coming in back doesn't give you spawn protection.
But it has happened that spawn protection gets disabled itself :/
Probably some admin

[SoLoD]

The Spawnkilling rule

Now, let me finish with this one.
My point is: the point of this system was "to divide everyone to immortals without damage and mortals with damage". Now, JHON said that he CAN NOT disable melee weapons. So, basically he created a "system" with a "bug", and since he "can not deal with this bug", he will just ignore it (or allow it, or call it however you want).
So, what he really did is nothing but a "immortals with damage". Now, admins do not want to accept a fact that this is a bug, because like i said before, we have no determination of what a "bug" is.
IMO when JHON is saying that he "can not deal with melee weapons", that means that he WANTS TO, but he CAN NOT. And vips and admins are using this "JHON can not" to get free kills. So, they just covering their behavior behind this "JHON can not".

But do you know what IS really funny in this situation? I was lurking in the forums to understand how this system was made, and i`ve found this: https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=484.msg3787#msg3787
Look at the last post.

Spawn protection should work the same for each class. When player spawns, he's getting invulnerable. The invulnerability is dropped if one of the following conditions is met:
Player deals damage to anyone from opposing teams.

That would solve all of the issues you've stated. If player attacks anyone, he's definitely prepared for the game, so why should he remain protected?

So, you were saying the exactly what i am saying now: IMMORTALS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO DAMAGE.

Now, explain me, why are you saying now that this is TOTALLY OKAY?

This my personal opinion. This has nothing to do with me being a staff member and other staff members can or cannot share my opinion. This is my personal view of the situation and can't be redirected to other staff members.

You did not read my topic, so let me tell you something: there are numerous facts of lie, abuse, and ignorance (damn, i am kinda bored to tell it again and again), and the way i am "talking" has nothing to do with the fact that this facts exist.

For everyone who is ssaying that i do not have RIGHT to DEMAND answers.
I did not have any rights on the OLD PTP. Tenshi, Lacerta, they were rough motherfuckers, but they NEVER were pretending to be a "good" guys.
Now, here, on the NEW PTP, i DO have rights. I have them because YOU GAVE ME this rights. Even if i never asked for this "rights".
Here: https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=77.0
Now, if motherfuckers that were pretending to be a "good" guys now do not want to pretend anymore, they need to take ALL THEIR WORDS BACK.

[Altus_Demens]

2SoLoD: you ask me a direct question, I am giving you a direct answer.
Yes, if the system worked as I suggested there, it would be perfect. But, imho, the current system is more than fine too. I don't see a problem in VIPs under the spawn protection killing people who lost their spawn protection with their chainsaws, that's my position, you can hate or despise me for that as much as you want. If you wish, go ahead and bring that suggestion back; I kinda understand your frustration and there is a big chance I'll support you.

Also, I remember that you said were losing your spawn protection under unclear circumstances. Of course, it is a bug, and I assume that if Jonne was able to confirm it, he'd have fixed, or it is in his todo list already, or he is going to do it in the near future.

P.S. I really dislike the definition of "free kills". There is a kill; it cannot be "free" or "enslaved". Seriously, if it was up to me, I'd remove the whole statistics. Or I'd take all of the death of all players and given them my kills: let Altus be the worst and everyone be the best. It's ridiculous that those useless number can give birth to such hard feelings. But if I posted such a suggestion, would you support me? Would anyone else? Of course, no.

[GlennN]

And now, in this topic i DEMAND a full response from admins. Not their usual "la la la", not their usual lie, ignorance and hypocrisy. I demand a FULL response on EVERY SINGLE STATEMENT. Statement of lie, or ignorance, or hypocrisy. Full response on EVERY SINGLE WORD.

I don't know you. I'm a working-student who spends 16 hours outside home. I can't waste my time to give a reply over here since its useless trying to convince you. But since you demand an explanation from every staff. Here we go.

Firstly, I'd like to thank Uthar, Altus, and Nikola for giving a direct response. I wouldn't like to add anything which they've already said.

Now look at this topic: https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=1797.0
It is about some mod "Stephanie". What i have learned about him: he has 0 (zero, none) ptp experience (and it is not strange for me, how you can get one if the only thing you are doing is staying at civ spawn with chainsaw). After i`ve watched a couple of his duels, i realised that he has zero samp skills. NONE FUCKING SKILLS.
And now a very simple question to everyone: do not want this piece of no-skill trash to judge you? Do you want him to punish you for "not doing your best" and for not playing "gamemode"? I do not want. And i even do not want to know how did he became an admin.

I agree. Stephanie is indeed a "a piece of no-skill trash", just as you described. What I know is this "0 (zero, none) ptp experience player", is a part of staff team for the past couple of months, performing every duty to the best of his/her abilities. Should you be notified of each and every activity of the staff, to prove that they're jobless in-game? Does your dueling skills determine if you can manage 40+ players, all alone? I don't think so. If you think you're much better, apply for a Mod position next time maybe?

One whole page dedicated to Stephanie... wow.

I am not sure if you read my topic.
Let me explain it to you one more time.
Months ago, when i made a report about "stephanie", i reported next thing: i was killed many time when i was under spawn protection. Then, Jonne came and shown me a logs. In that logs you can see that somehow i lost my spawn protection. And i know that i was standing still in the spawn.

I read your topic, and what you've stated is wrong. The first kill wasn't a bug.

[06:53:18] *** Barkii killed SoLoD (Distance: 15) (UZI)
[06:53:33] Spawnprotection of SoLoD (ID: 7) ended.
[06:53:52] *** Stephanie killed SoLoD (Distance: 1) (Chainsaw)

If you don't recall, You were killed by Barkii next to spawn. You died, respawned and went out of spawn to shoot him, but he'd already leave that area by then. You came back into spawn and you got killed.

In case you aren't aware of the rules,

Once you lose your spawn protection, you can be killed inside or outside your spawn as the spawn zone is not a safe zone.       
No damage can be done to players inside the spawn zone who have spawn protection.

You accuse of VIPs and Admins abusing the bug and using Chainsaw to kill. What about the spray-can, which can be used by any 0+ level players. Why don't you have a problem with that?

About the Nick Faking,

That issue has no relation to your game-play whatsoever. He already talked to the player and clarified it. You also don't have to know what the Mods and Admins have access to. No need to question their rights. One fine day, if some random player decides to join the game with the name 'SoLoD', what would you expect us to do? Think about it.


The fact that you're comparing a mere online game to a country is what makes this unacceptable. How can you expect everything to be 100% perfect, in all aspects? Not possible whatsoever.

Even I have my own issues. But I just ignore them. Why? Because its just a game, and not the end of the world. Just move on.

I'm sorry if I'm mistaken anywhere, as I've tried to answer you in the most professional way. I won't make a reply here further, since you've already got the answers to your questions.