Adjusting Sniper for Optimal Gameplay and PTP Balance [Poll Added]

[Konata Izumi]

Just fix the chainsaw thing and all will be fine alone with granting limited bullets for sniper.

chainsaw is good as it now,
and u can notice no one saying lagger now,everyone takes damage normally,
And i suggest if we removed sniper and saw from civilians level one players in game.

This will be good idea

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Just fix the chainsaw thing and all will be fine alone with granting limited bullets for sniper.

chainsaw is good as it now,
and u can notice no one saying lagger now,everyone takes damage normally,
And i suggest if we removed sniper and saw from civilians level one players in game.

This will be good idea

How would going back to the previous list of problems solve anything? The current update did make the server more balanced by giving everyone to properly counter sniper and saw with proper scrolling (no automatic switch). Only major problem is civilian class got buffed by basically becoming like the problem civilian VIPs and increasing the problem during the gm.

Taking it away would just revert back to old problems of GM classes being too weak against civilian horde. Nerf civilians by making them run around and you got a major balance fix.

[Srex_Zangetsu]

Chainsaw 's ridiculous distance kills need to be fixed as soon as possible.
I'm one of those who get irritated for being killed without even being touched, that's not even realistic.
And yes, I agree, civilians could be nerfed. But, we need to find them some new things to do, like I mentioned in few posts in the past.

[Faro0s]

Just fix the chainsaw thing and all will be fine alone with granting limited bullets for sniper.

chainsaw is good as it now,
and u can notice no one saying lagger now,everyone takes damage normally,
And i suggest if we removed sniper and saw from civilians level one players in game.

This will be good idea

How would going back to the previous list of problems solve anything? The current update did make the server more balanced by giving everyone to properly counter sniper and saw with proper scrolling (no automatic switch). Only major problem is civilian class got buffed by basically becoming like the problem civilian VIPs and increasing the problem during the gm.

Taking it away would just revert back to old problems of GM classes being too weak against civilian horde. Nerf civilians by making them run around and you got a major balance fix.

Dude, first Alexanderr said something which was completely utter foolishness now you ? People kill me from a distance with chainsaw, it is ridiculous. It needs to be fixed because it makes the game play worse. Tell me how the chainsaw update made the server more “balanced” according to you? It’s basically the same because everyone gets to use chainsaw and everyone will suffer. It was the same before and it is the same now. Exceptional guys are those who can’t handle people who lag, they tend to seek excuses. Lag still hits people no matter how you update the chainsaw. But this is completely ridiculous, i die from distance lol and in my screen i see the guy at least 10 cm far from my character. Magic?No.

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Just fix the chainsaw thing and all will be fine alone with granting limited bullets for sniper.

chainsaw is good as it now,
and u can notice no one saying lagger now,everyone takes damage normally,
And i suggest if we removed sniper and saw from civilians level one players in game.

This will be good idea

How would going back to the previous list of problems solve anything? The current update did make the server more balanced by giving everyone to properly counter sniper and saw with proper scrolling (no automatic switch). Only major problem is civilian class got buffed by basically becoming like the problem civilian VIPs and increasing the problem during the gm.

Taking it away would just revert back to old problems of GM classes being too weak against civilian horde. Nerf civilians by making them run around and you got a major balance fix.

Dude, first Alexanderr said something which was completely utter foolishness now you ? People kill me from a distance with chainsaw, it is ridiculous. It needs to be fixed because it makes the game play worse. Tell me how the chainsaw update made the server more “balanced” according to you? It’s basically the same because everyone gets to use chainsaw and everyone will suffer. It was the same before and it is the same now. Exceptional guys are those who can’t handle people who lag, they tend to seek excuses. Lag still hits people no matter how you update the chainsaw. But this is completely ridiculous, i die from distance lol and in my screen i see the guy at least 10 cm far from my character. Magic?No.

Hmm, my bad I didn't make it clear I wasnt referring to current saw dmg system. I thought my disapproval of it in other posts would be enough, apologies.

Regardless, I mean more as in the giving equal firepower to GM classes to counter civilian sniper spam and making Good Team vs Bad Team More balanced. Every weapon damage besides chainsaw is also more improved. Its like a curse granted with a improvement. Although this can be subjective. But I prefer this one during gunplay. Ofc if you think this is wrong please tell me where I am, I obviously have less experience than you in DM stuff and a SAMP noob in general.

What Alexanderr is saying sniper and saw additions should be cancelled. It wouldnt solve nothing except just reduce the ridiculous saw problem to a smaller playerbase that would just be as prominent as current because they make up the majority during peak times before update and more new people leaving more angrily. And not to mention debuff the GM classes.

I dont like the chainsaw dmg system at all, its ridiculous, I barely RQ but that stuff will make me not play the GM for almost a week. I have seen presidents die because of it and civilian wasnt even that close. I agree you on nerfing it actually.

I just dont know how to suggest against it, we can go back to old system and make saw somewhat more tolerable but all the new improved weapon damage system that suit other gun weapons in gameplay will go away.

[Faro0s]

Just fix the chainsaw thing and all will be fine alone with granting limited bullets for sniper.

chainsaw is good as it now,
and u can notice no one saying lagger now,everyone takes damage normally,
And i suggest if we removed sniper and saw from civilians level one players in game.

This will be good idea

How would going back to the previous list of problems solve anything? The current update did make the server more balanced by giving everyone to properly counter sniper and saw with proper scrolling (no automatic switch). Only major problem is civilian class got buffed by basically becoming like the problem civilian VIPs and increasing the problem during the gm.

Taking it away would just revert back to old problems of GM classes being too weak against civilian horde. Nerf civilians by making them run around and you got a major balance fix.

Dude, first Alexanderr said something which was completely utter foolishness now you ? People kill me from a distance with chainsaw, it is ridiculous. It needs to be fixed because it makes the game play worse. Tell me how the chainsaw update made the server more “balanced” according to you? It’s basically the same because everyone gets to use chainsaw and everyone will suffer. It was the same before and it is the same now. Exceptional guys are those who can’t handle people who lag, they tend to seek excuses. Lag still hits people no matter how you update the chainsaw. But this is completely ridiculous, i die from distance lol and in my screen i see the guy at least 10 cm far from my character. Magic?No.

Hmm, my bad I didn't make it clear I wasnt referring to current saw dmg system. I thought my disapproval of it in other posts would be enough, apologies.

Regardless, I mean more as in the giving equal firepower to GM classes to counter civilian sniper spam and making Good Team vs Bad Team More balanced. Every weapon damage besides chainsaw is also more improved. Its like a curse granted with a improvement. Although this can be subjective. But I prefer this one during gunplay. Ofc if you think this is wrong please tell me where I am, I obviously have less experience than you in DM stuff and a SAMP noob in general.

What Alexanderr is saying sniper and saw additions should be cancelled. It wouldnt solve nothing except just reduce the ridiculous saw problem to a smaller playerbase that would just be as prominent as current because they make up the majority during peak times before update and more new people leaving more angrily. And not to mention debuff the GM classes.

I dont like the chainsaw dmg system at all, its ridiculous, I barely RQ but that stuff will make me not play the GM for almost a week. I have seen presidents die because of it and civilian wasnt even that close. I agree you on nerfing it actually.

I just dont know how to suggest against it, we can go back to old system and make saw somewhat more tolerable but all the new improved weapon damage system that suit other gun weapons in gameplay will go away.

Now that's something we can agree on. I can give you the best solution for this and the only one solution I guess. Getting the whole weapon system back like it was would make it better in my opinion because the server gets back as it was. No one was complaining about it except for that one guy who made a post it about it, pretty inspiring lol.

Coming to the balance case, we have different classes for a reason with different weapons given. It is for a reason and that reason is a class should be different from other one. So it is supposed to be imbalanced a bit but as far as  I see, the weapon system in each classes are fine. Terrorists got spas + Tecs + Ak 47 while cops got Deagle + uzi + M4. Now civilians are exceptions, they got all WW, so basically they are not supposed to fight. VIPs in civilian class would be OP but we can't remove those weapons based on a single class issue, we should deal with it. Still not that too OP. Chainsaw and sniper should be given to vips only AS THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DESERVE IT or at least limit the ammo for others ( Eg: 20 ammo per life ).

What Alexanderr suggested was completely nonsense and leads to nothing in my opinion. Good talk we had Lohit.


-Fares

[Finisher]

I agree with FaroOooOooS anything he says is legit

-Fini

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Now that's something we can agree on. I can give you the best solution for this and the only one solution I guess. Getting the whole weapon system back like it was would make it better in my opinion because the server gets back as it was. No one was complaining about it except for that one guy who made a post it about it, pretty inspiring lol.

Coming to the balance case, we have different classes for a reason with different weapons given. It is for a reason and that reason is a class should be different from other one. So it is supposed to be imbalanced a bit but as far as  I see, the weapon system in each classes are fine. Terrorists got spas + Tecs + Ak 47 while cops got Deagle + uzi + M4. Now civilians are exceptions, they got all WW, so basically they are not supposed to fight. VIPs in civilian class would be OP but we can't remove those weapons based on a single class issue, we should deal with it. Still not that too OP. Chainsaw and sniper should be given to vips only AS THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DESERVE IT or at least limit the ammo for others ( Eg: 20 ammo per life ).

What Alexanderr suggested was completely nonsense and leads to nothing in my opinion. Good talk we had Lohit.

Cool. But the new system has more potential to fix and expand gameplay since the damage is handled by server itself [unless I am interpreting it differently]. Replacing the whole system for one weapon is a heavy card regardless how fun that weapon maybe. Or maybe its possible to have previous system enabled for one weapon? or reduce the chainsaw damage atleast for GM classes.

 I dont disagree with you, but I am like 40% with you on reverting previous system but only 100% if everything goes to absolute shit and saw becomes worse than it already it is and jonne/admins dont respond or talk, let alone work on it.

Although I disagree on reverting to older system. 3+ years and still it remained the same despite having suggestions against it ranging from nerfing/limiting/exclusion since 2016 (might be wrong). I dont think jonne [or the admin team?] can put a better makeshift solution than this.

The best we can do is change the current system to fit the needs accordingly. Hell I dont want more OP civilians myself.

Our basic points of agreeing remains the same regardless we agree on fixing the chainsaw and limiting entire sniper in someway. I dont expect the whole suggestion to be implemented either but even 2-3 will improve the gm in my opinion.

Discussion and the common points of agreeing is the only thing that jonne would work on.

Thanks for the response.

[YoMama]

Lohit just one question ! Why you write such long ass paragraphs , there isn't much material that needs long ass paras to be explained .
I dont know why people here are obsessed with writing long ass paras , are they too dumb to write few simple lines and keeping their language minimalistic? Or they enjoy writing paras in name of "explaining their viewpoint fully".(dont take it personally lohit its for everyone)

Want me to write a long-ass paragraph on nuance? Why are the writers dumb when for some people, it's difficult to spend a minute reading something here when they spend more time than that flipping through one-liners on social media? A lot of the "explaining" posts come out of a responding person not reading the previous post and the poster feeling like they have to help the person understand shit they won't read anyway. Some things can't easily be turned into two lines.

I only like the first suggestion of limited bullets for snipers . For others i am not sure , might need some more discussion .

...would that mean a longer post somewhere? *crosses self for protection*

Can't the new weapons system be turned off for particular weapons? My understanding is that it's pretty configurable, so it might have that feature (in which case, turn it off for saws).

Chainsaw and sniper should be given to vips only AS THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DESERVE IT or at least limit the ammo for others ( Eg: 20 ammo per life ).

...why? How about limiting VIP ammo? Does anyone deserve unlimited ammo for a weapon as powerful as the sniper? Why not make them all pickups (with a reasonable number of bullets, like 10 or 15), but the VIPs get 20% more ammo or something?

[Faro0s]

Now that's something we can agree on. I can give you the best solution for this and the only one solution I guess. Getting the whole weapon system back like it was would make it better in my opinion because the server gets back as it was. No one was complaining about it except for that one guy who made a post it about it, pretty inspiring lol.

Coming to the balance case, we have different classes for a reason with different weapons given. It is for a reason and that reason is a class should be different from other one. So it is supposed to be imbalanced a bit but as far as  I see, the weapon system in each classes are fine. Terrorists got spas + Tecs + Ak 47 while cops got Deagle + uzi + M4. Now civilians are exceptions, they got all WW, so basically they are not supposed to fight. VIPs in civilian class would be OP but we can't remove those weapons based on a single class issue, we should deal with it. Still not that too OP. Chainsaw and sniper should be given to vips only AS THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DESERVE IT or at least limit the ammo for others ( Eg: 20 ammo per life ).

What Alexanderr suggested was completely nonsense and leads to nothing in my opinion. Good talk we had Lohit.

Cool. But the new system has more potential to fix and expand gameplay since the damage is handled by server itself [unless I am interpreting it differently]. Replacing the whole system for one weapon is a heavy card regardless how fun that weapon maybe. Or maybe its possible to have previous system enabled for one weapon? or reduce the chainsaw damage atleast for GM classes.

 I dont disagree with you, but I am like 40% with you on reverting previous system but only 100% if everything goes to absolute shit and saw becomes worse than it already it is and jonne/admins dont respond or talk, let alone work on it.

Although I disagree on reverting to older system. 3+ years and still it remained the same despite having suggestions against it ranging from nerfing/limiting/exclusion since 2016 (might be wrong). I dont think jonne [or the admin team?] can put a better makeshift solution than this.

The best we can do is change the current system to fit the needs accordingly. Hell I dont want more OP civilians myself.

Our basic points of agreeing remains the same regardless we agree on fixing the chainsaw and limiting entire sniper in someway. I dont expect the whole suggestion to be implemented either but even 2-3 will improve the gm in my opinion.

Discussion and the common points of agreeing is the only thing that jonne would work on.

Thanks for the response.

So your main point is to balance the whole game , right? Well, in my opinion, civilians should also be included in the game mode because now days most of us play as civilians(keeping the clan war aside) and we can't ignore that fact. Adjusting the weapons accordingly won't make a big difference, players will still be civilians and one civilian is nothing in front of other class with or without chainsaw(Since it is granted for everyone) but when they gather together, there will be difference. Chainsaw has been a problem always but now everyone can have it so this point is clear I guess. But this damage system makes it really annoying and nonsense I prefer to call. People get killed from a distance by chainsaw, what logic can accept that lol ?
I am kinda fine with the new weapon system, it makes the game balanced between the VIPs and normal players but yet it is not necessary. However, the damage system makes it confusing so this should be a priority.
The new system mixed up the vips and normal players, to solve this, it is useless to say remove chainsaw and sniper from normal players as no one gives a shit to what I say so the other solution can limiting the bullets for the normal players as it is a vip feature and that should show a difference between vips and normal players.
So, my points are:
Fix the damaging system.
Limit sniper bullets for normal players.
The rest will be discussed more.
Thanks for the response.

Chainsaw and sniper should be given to vips only AS THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DESERVE IT or at least limit the ammo for others ( Eg: 20 ammo per life ).

...why? How about limiting VIP ammo? Does anyone deserve unlimited ammo for a weapon as powerful as the sniper? Why not make them all pickups (with a reasonable number of bullets, like 10 or 15), but the VIPs get 20% more ammo or something?

If VIPs does not deserve then please explain to me the reason of having vips at first place. Tell me the reason why did people payed for it. Why did this happen ? I believe you are an old player and you witnessed everything in the past and it was working fine.
Increasing a bit for VIPs doesn't make it different, they won't accept 20-30 bullets of sniper.

I agree with FaroOooOooS anything he says is legit

-Fini

Pls FiNiSheR, thank you, much appreciated.



-Fares

[Jack_Bhai]

Today Ahmed again killed me in 8 distance with chainsaw I hate this chainsaw update . only this man just have saw skills with this update I never use other weapons to kill anyone this noob just using saw or we dead .

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

So your main point is to balance the whole game , right? Well, in my opinion, civilians should also be included in the game mode because now days most of us play as civilians(keeping the clan war aside) and we can't ignore that fact. Adjusting the weapons accordingly won't make a big difference, players will still be civilians and one civilian is nothing in front of other class with or without chainsaw(Since it is granted for everyone) but when they gather together, there will be difference. Chainsaw has been a problem always but now everyone can have it so this point is clear I guess. But this damage system makes it really annoying and nonsense I prefer to call. People get killed from a distance by chainsaw, what logic can accept that lol ?
I am kinda fine with the new weapon system, it makes the game balanced between the VIPs and normal players but yet it is not necessary. However, the damage system makes it confusing so this should be a priority.
The new system mixed up the vips and normal players, to solve this, it is useless to say remove chainsaw and sniper from normal players as no one gives a shit to what I say so the other solution can limiting the bullets for the normal players as it is a vip feature and that should show a difference between vips and normal players.
So, my points are:
Fix the damaging system.
Limit sniper bullets for normal players.
The rest will be discussed more.
Thanks for the response.

Yes I want a balanced game to suit GM and Civilian both while still retaining what the server is meant to be.
But I got confused there, but just to clarify I agree that saw should be nerfed. You me and both agree that besides current chainsaw the update is atleast somewhat makes it better.
Although,I dont get how the argument supports sniper being reverted to be more infavorable to Lvl 0-1 players.

Yes players will go civilian, and I know the chance of a GM participating civilian (or any situation in general). I am only suggesting to nerfing them so they actually stay inferior in sniper to most GM classes. Because thats the very dynamic of civilian.

The gamemode balance update made the civilians indirectly buffed,[one can no longer have extra slots against specific side supporting civilians], the difference they make is usually in a very affecting manner, I fail to see any reason why the gamechanging difference is being used justify why they should remain as powerful as they are, either Lvl0,Lvl1 or VIP civilians.

They arent supposed to be a main faction, just a extra wild card class. Most civilians rarely kill each other while protecting one side and someone supporting another.

Civilians usually affect the GM balance whenever they participate,true many times they dont participate at all like NSA, but the amount of civilians in general during avg+ times is so much that even a chunk of participation creates a whole new buff class for either side and I am not saying any salty speech here I have too many screenshots and even videos of it for proof. 

20-30 bullets is neccessary for any civilian, and that is one pickup per spawn they can add up more by going to other pickups. I know its ridiculous for having 20-30 bullets for entire game. But having 300+ bullets and standing at one place and changing the field is certainly more. Going through pickups give anyone around 100, why would any skilled player need 250+ bullets to get decent at kills?

 
Only GM classes that are constantly on the move and wont use sniper that much should be allowed to have that. People would be motivated to go to terrorist to counter a camping president instead of civilian.

If VIPs does not deserve then please explain to me the reason of having vips at first place. Tell me the reason why did people payed for it. Why did this happen ? I believe you are an old player and you witnessed everything in the past and it was working fine.
Increasing a bit for VIPs doesn't make it different, they won't accept 20-30 bullets of sniper.

Not trying to be rude but I am pretty sure jonne recently and directly denounced all VIP purchases being a 'trade' based benefit or something what people 'paid' for. Its was always a donation and jonne carried many if not most of the existing VIPs from Tenshi era to here free of charge with 0 contribution to the PlanB server. [Hell some people are claiming refund for the VIPs they didnt even pay for! I dont like this taking things for granted approach one bit] but hear me out..

I get that its technically its still wrong to suddenly debuff the VIPs indirectly but most of the aura around it are made by the community bullshit itself, and its true that theres really nothing much about it aside weapons. PTP has one of the worst VIP packages I have ever seen in SAMP and in that regard jonne should really include other stuff like cosmetic or trivial quality of life advantages non gameplay advantages to make it more appealing than just the generic EA'ish package.

Thats why I am still okay with VIPs having a controllable raw advantage over Lvl1s. Sniper and /rc wasnt, instances against it. They did keep the server alive before Jonne got a job to pay for server bills  and that I respect and people should be grateful but it isnt like they didnt enjoy the benefit and bias for a long time already.

I dont wanna sound rude or like some hurr durr issa our time now newgentard but I dont really see a point of VIP retaining their superior advantage culture 'as a right' over something that clearly has a misinterpreted and manipulated motive behind it. They should get a advantage but a minor one to suit current PTP which is mostly new.

Oh btw YoMama, the extra bullets is already there. I added it so they have a minor raw advantage and minor quality of life advantage (big word but thas the only word I know).

And about the new system being very adjustable you sure about that? I dont know shit about SAMP coding just shots in the dark.

Super Nutshell:

Yes fix the current damage system. Either by reverting back to old system or waiting for jonne or admin team to reply if disabling current system for one weapon like Saw is possible. Continuation would be dependant on Admin reply or someone knowledgeable on the scripting topic with a reasonable solution.

Nah, limit for all with VIPs having (6-10 more bullets). Too much proof that major disbalance would still exist and problem wont truly be solved by just reverting to making it more focused to VIPs. The VIP Civilian OP ratio dwindled a bit post balance update but civilian buff made it the worst state the GM can potentially be in.
 
Good talking, feel free to ask any clarification or rebuttals, I know this was long and has few holes I will make it more focused now that I have already established the core points (so I would just need to quote back or reduce it even further) (this was long cause I had to make a more detailed response than alexxander one and reply to three new points in topic. The VIP being particularly open ended to counter any potential extra questions at it.

[Faro0s]

Damn it Lohit, didn't expect that big article by the way, will take time to read, I will edit this post once I read it thoroughly.

So your main point is to balance the whole game , right? Well, in my opinion, civilians should also be included in the game mode because now days most of us play as civilians(keeping the clan war aside) and we can't ignore that fact. Adjusting the weapons accordingly won't make a big difference, players will still be civilians and one civilian is nothing in front of other class with or without chainsaw(Since it is granted for everyone) but when they gather together, there will be difference. Chainsaw has been a problem always but now everyone can have it so this point is clear I guess. But this damage system makes it really annoying and nonsense I prefer to call. People get killed from a distance by chainsaw, what logic can accept that lol ?
I am kinda fine with the new weapon system, it makes the game balanced between the VIPs and normal players but yet it is not necessary. However, the damage system makes it confusing so this should be a priority.
The new system mixed up the vips and normal players, to solve this, it is useless to say remove chainsaw and sniper from normal players as no one gives a shit to what I say so the other solution can limiting the bullets for the normal players as it is a vip feature and that should show a difference between vips and normal players.
So, my points are:
Fix the damaging system.
Limit sniper bullets for normal players.
The rest will be discussed more.
Thanks for the response.

Yes I want a balanced game to suit GM and Civilian both while still retaining what the server is meant to be.
But I got confused there, but just to clarify I agree that saw should be nerfed. You me and both agree that besides current chainsaw the update is atleast somewhat makes it better.
Although,I dont get how the argument supports sniper being reverted to be more infavorable to Lvl 0-1 players.

Yes players will go civilian, and I know the chance of a GM participating civilian (or any situation in general). I am only suggesting to nerfing them so they actually stay inferior in sniper to most GM classes. Because thats the very dynamic of civilian.

The gamemode balance update made the civilians indirectly buffed,[one can no longer have extra slots against specific side supporting civilians], the difference they make is usually in a very affecting manner, I fail to see any reason why the gamechanging difference is being used justify why they should remain as powerful as they are, either Lvl0,Lvl1 or VIP civilians.

They arent supposed to be a main faction, just a extra wild card class. Most civilians rarely kill each other while protecting one side and someone supporting another.

Civilians usually affect the GM balance whenever they participate,true many times they dont participate at all like NSA, but the amount of civilians in general during avg+ times is so much that even a chunk of participation creates a whole new buff class for either side and I am not saying any salty speech here I have too many screenshots and even videos of it for proof. 

20-30 bullets is neccessary for any civilian, and that is one pickup per spawn they can add up more by going to other pickups. I know its ridiculous for having 20-30 bullets for entire game. But having 300+ bullets and standing at one place and changing the field is certainly more. Going through pickups give anyone around 100, why would any skilled player need 250+ bullets to get decent at kills?

 
Only GM classes that are constantly on the move and wont use sniper that much should be allowed to have that. People would be motivated to go to terrorist to counter a camping president instead of civilian.

Ok, one point is cleared, the damage system should fixed or reverted as it was before, at least for chainsaw to be precise.

I kinda agree after a bit of thinking about what you said. Pickups for sniper bullets sounds cool and yeah as you said, probably it will work.

I have a suggestion for civilian imbalancing the GM but it will sound crazy or stupid for some people but to me it is ok and it will definitely work. How about limiting the civilian slots to a certain limit to force people play the game mode ? In my opinion it will definitely work but I don't know admins' or your opinions so looking forward to hear it.

If VIPs does not deserve then please explain to me the reason of having vips at first place. Tell me the reason why did people payed for it. Why did this happen ? I believe you are an old player and you witnessed everything in the past and it was working fine.
Increasing a bit for VIPs doesn't make it different, they won't accept 20-30 bullets of sniper.

Not trying to be rude but I am pretty sure jonne recently and directly denounced all VIP purchases being a 'trade' based benefit or something what people 'paid' for. Its was always a donation and jonne carried many if not most of the existing VIPs from Tenshi era to here free of charge with 0 contribution to the PlanB server. [Hell some people are claiming refund for the VIPs they didnt even pay for! I dont like this taking things for granted approach one bit] but hear me out..

I get that its technically its still wrong to suddenly debuff the VIPs indirectly but most of the aura around it are made by the community bullshit itself, and its true that theres really nothing much about it aside weapons. PTP has one of the worst VIP packages I have ever seen in SAMP and in that regard jonne should really include other stuff like cosmetic or trivial quality of life advantages non gameplay advantages to make it more appealing than just the generic EA'ish package.

Thats why I am still okay with VIPs having a controllable raw advantage over Lvl1s. Sniper and /rc wasnt, instances against it. They did keep the server alive before Jonne got a job to pay for server bills  and that I respect and people should be grateful but it isnt like they didnt enjoy the benefit and bias for a long time already.

I dont wanna sound rude or like some hurr durr issa our time now newgentard but I dont really see a point of VIP retaining their superior advantage culture 'as a right' over something that clearly has a misinterpreted and manipulated motive behind it. They should get a advantage but a minor one to suit current PTP which is mostly new.

Oh btw YoMama, the extra bullets is already there. I added it so they have a minor raw advantage and minor quality of life advantage (big word but thas the only word I know).

And about the new system being very adjustable you sure about that? I dont know shit about SAMP coding just shots in the dark.

Super Nutshell:

Yes fix the current damage system. Either by reverting back to old system or waiting for jonne or admin team to reply if disabling current system for one weapon like Saw is possible. Continuation would be dependant on Admin reply or someone knowledgeable on the scripting topic with a reasonable solution.

Nah, limit for all with VIPs having (6-10 more bullets). Too much proof that major disbalance would still exist and problem wont truly be solved by just reverting to making it more focused to VIPs. The VIP Civilian OP ratio dwindled a bit post balance update but civilian buff made it the worst state the GM can potentially be in.
 
Good talking, feel free to ask any clarification or rebuttals, I know this was long and has few holes I will make it more focused now that I have already established the core points (so I would just need to quote back or reduce it even further) (this was long cause I had to make a more detailed response than alexxander one and reply to three new points in topic. The VIP being particularly open ended to counter any potential extra questions at it.

It's not about the money paid, for me it really doesn't matter as long as it helped the server and I really appreciate Jonne's help and granting free vips when this server was created, no doubt it is definitely appreciable. The thing that bothers me is that it was something we got used to, for a decade we used the system and it was fine, why a sudden change ? First the limitation of /rc and then the weapons, next thing will be removing the whole vip lol. The advantage we had it was neither major nor minor, it was working fine and it was pretty logical, you pay you get good stuff.
That isn't the point for now, it will be discussed soon.

Thanks for your time and response again.
-Fares

[Finisher]

Why do you need to type your name at the end of every reply? Am I missing something here

[YoMama]

If VIPs does not deserve then please explain to me the reason of having vips at first place. Tell me the reason why did people payed for it. Why did this happen ?

Sure, there is a VIP system to support the server. Giving one group of people ridiculous advantages such as overpowered weapons that drive outsiders away is not supporting the server. That's in my view a perk but more so an oversight. The fact that I have to explain why a VIP system exists, if not to give people with money even more privilege, shows the fantastically backwards culture we have around VIPs. Do you think people just take your money because they recognize that you're special and deserve to be a member of the VIP club, then burn it?

I believe you are an old player and you witnessed everything in the past and it was working fine.
Increasing a bit for VIPs doesn't make it different, they won't accept 20-30 bullets of sniper.

I am indeed an old player, and I have witnessed the past. I remember a time before lagcomp, when snipers were nearly useless except against stationary targets. I also remember making several suggestions to make snipers less overpowered when lagcomp came around, and I've been repeatedly bringing it up in the five years since. It didn't matter as much five years ago, because players were more plentiful. "VIP" players could afford to be selfish. It seems that it is only recently that people have begun to realize how badly we fucked ourselves by balancing the game so heavily against new players.

I don't think anyone should give a shit what VIPs "won't accept" if they're too stupid to realize that without accepting some limits, there won't be anyone but VIPs playing. Remember, anyone who can donate here is pretty wealthy compared to the rest of the world-- not everyone can donate. New players have brains, and there are far too many alternative servers for them to stay in one in which they don't have a chance. In the words of The Wire: "The game is rigged, but you cannot lose if you do not play."

@Bully Is this short enough for you?