Adjusting Sniper for Optimal Gameplay and PTP Balance [Poll Added]

[Faro0s]

If VIPs does not deserve then please explain to me the reason of having vips at first place. Tell me the reason why did people payed for it. Why did this happen ?

Sure, there is a VIP system to support the server. Giving one group of people ridiculous advantages such as overpowered weapons that drive outsiders away is not supporting the server. That's in my view a perk but more so an oversight. The fact that I have to explain why a VIP system exists, if not to give people with money even more privilege, shows the fantastically backwards culture we have around VIPs. Do you think people just take your money because they recognize that you're special and deserve to be a member of the VIP club, then burn it?

I believe you are an old player and you witnessed everything in the past and it was working fine.
Increasing a bit for VIPs doesn't make it different, they won't accept 20-30 bullets of sniper.

I am indeed an old player, and I have witnessed the past. I remember a time before lagcomp, when snipers were nearly useless except against stationary targets. I also remember making several suggestions to make snipers less overpowered when lagcomp came around, and I've been repeatedly bringing it up in the five years since. It didn't matter as much five years ago, because players were more plentiful. "VIP" players could afford to be selfish. It seems that it is only recently that people have begun to realize how badly we fucked ourselves by balancing the game so heavily against new players.

I don't think anyone should give a shit what VIPs "won't accept" if they're too stupid to realize that without accepting some limits, there won't be anyone but VIPs playing. Remember, anyone who can donate here is pretty wealthy compared to the rest of the world-- not everyone can donate. New players have brains, and there are far too many alternative servers for them to stay in one in which they don't have a chance. In the words of The Wire: "The game is rigged, but you cannot lose if you do not play."

@Bully Is this short enough for you?

I understand your point but for me I don't think this will work. Then if we really want balance how about removing VIP purchases and levels completely ? But you won't support because it is a dumb idea, it is a dumb idea, then tell me, is there a better way to balance the game than this ?

Why do you need to type your name at the end of every reply? Am I missing something here

A habit maybe.

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Thanks for reading through. Unless new topics come up I wont need to elaborate more. Lets see.

Finishing Note: I divided the final response into chunks per topic for easier viewing and returning to, although they are mostly a bunch of 2-3 liners paragraphs (rather than shorter paragraphs but 4-5 liners) since they still look very big compared to previous posts but just have 2-3 Spacebars between paragraphs. I needed to make those points because otherwise I would have to repeat them again with even more words if the discussion ever goes that way and each point needs to be addressed differently or there will be certain confusion because of the way I write.

Ok, one point is cleared, the damage system should fixed or reverted as it was before, at least for chainsaw to be precise.

I kinda agree after a bit of thinking about what you said. Pickups for sniper bullets sounds cool and yeah as you said, probably it will work.

Glad I made my point across.

I have a suggestion for civilian imbalancing the GM but it will sound crazy or stupid for some people but to me it is ok and it will definitely work. How about limiting the civilian slots to a certain limit to force people play the game mode ? In my opinion it will definitely work but I don't know admins' or your opinions so looking forward to hear it.

I have thought of this actually, I dont think its stupid in particular but the problem is it wont work practically and suggestion would get bombarded with -1s.

Its not a bad route actually if we adapt it to something like the recent 'Spectator Mode for Civilians' suggestion, like by default "make the civilians spectator and/or complete ghosts in the game world and a normal player when they want to participate but within limited slots(your suggestion)."

Problem is this and general civilian problems are dependent on player regulation, the only way people change or adapt significantly on this server are through soft or indirect regulation, i.e Balance System, go GM to get significant scores.

People would just get mad by exhaustion/frustation of main gamemode, we dont have a spectator mode for this server so they will just leave instead of relaxing. Not to mention Civilians are already quite developed as a relaxing class, with stuff like races or duels that would be a waste. So, direct hard regulation by outright limiting the slots wont work (unless you combine it with some incentive like spectator mode.)

It's not about the money paid, for me it really doesn't matter as long as it helped the server and I really appreciate Jonne's help and granting free vips when this server was created, no doubt it is definitely appreciable. The thing that bothers me is that it was something we got used to, for a decade we used the system and it was fine, why a sudden change ? First the limitation of /rc and then the weapons, next thing will be removing the whole vip lol. The advantage we had it was neither major nor minor, it was working fine and it was pretty logical, you pay you get good stuff.
That isn't the point for now, it will be discussed soon.

Glad you dont hold a shady opinion on VIP Package's existence like certain individuals, but I still disagree to certain extent based on how 'hard' the changes were. I find it understandable but a bit dubious.

1. First of all,I dont think Jonne should be burdened that 'heavy' for the faults of Tenshi's mismanagement at all. VIP Package and its escalation into Pay2Admin situation happened because moneyz and Tenshi didn't care about working on the server that much. PlanB is only truly accountable for 3 years of its existence.

The conception itself was dubious but I wont rely on that. Plan B is accountable on the VIP situation and dealing with behaviors from the old server and Jonne welcomed it on his own.

I do acknowledge it has value cause conditioning but not as heavy as all of the 10 years. Hence moving to other points you took time to mention.


2.About /rc I dont think it was that 'sudden' per say. I am pretty sure there's a significant amount of time behind it that also involves community reviews and discussion.

I wont fill this post with all the links but here's the '2017' topic (PlanB was created late 2016 I think) that lead to current "balance system" and /rc measure to begin with.

https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=2037.15

VIP /rc gets balanced fucked, I have too many screenshots to prove those. I can compile them on IMGUR or something if ya want, since the post will get super inflated.


I doubt PlanB Team is doing some exaggerated nerf on VIP class suddenly. You wont notice much on forum because people simply -1 quote here with no substance, and less devoted newbies dont bother on forum, however those who did take an interest acknowledge the discussed problems even the DM ones who are pretty brave on their own.

New update was borderline damage control because people just started leaving more than ever. PTP Forum doesnt have a good discussion environment. PlanB Team made a decision all on their own cuz much didnt care.


3.Weapons are the fishiest, Most VIPs prominent on forum post -1 posts with little to no reason to. Not generalizing ofc but I can give you fine examples and even quotes. Most didnt want to improve the situation and wanted sniper. I dont think even with skills one has a good environment to improve or evade the sniper unless they are really focused outside GM.

People and even 'Moderators' see it as a power package only based on weapons, too much evidence to prove it isnt major by current player standards bro. It only looks minor from surface value with minimal affecting players and a strong base GM. Neither are the case

The VIP Problem exactly parallels the current civilian buff but more faster and clear to see.

Now I know that I am saying 'existing proof' a lot. If you want me to post it I will, I am just avoiding to bloat the post. Although nothing too super decisive like admin log records, key info and instances yes.


But as I said already, I am aware of the change being too direct and bound to have a reaction, hence for now people can atleast begin with a good practical point that is the pickup solution that soft nerfs the sniper problem, while giving VIP some minor advantage, I know it isnt even that big compared to old advantage.

The change seems strong due to already preexisting server problems caused by community both VIP or Non VIPs. We can still have a comfortable VIP after a stable and more progressive friendly server conditions are established.


Right now, VIPs STILL have those features, nobody took them away. VIPs still can /rc but to lesser extent Its just being interpreted as being taken away because forum crowd thinks its fine to think like that.

Not all Regulars participate all the time but when they do it significantly detrimental and those are mostly during active and average server times.

I am Donating to support the server, why shouldnt I get something in return.

With my suggestion the current problems wont not only be fixed and balanced. But I just am not willing to go back to previous VIP controlled gamemode and go back to previous set of problems.

Good talking.

 

[Faro0s]

Omg Lohit, that's really one hell of a big article on 2-3 points. Anyways, I am not gonna argue about the VIP updates because no matter what, logical or not, some people will just keep denying the actual reasonable fact, so I am tired of it and tend to keep aside for now.

Your civilian idea sounds pretty cool to me and it will introduce something new in this server which will probably be liked by many I guess.. though I am not sure if it will work, maybe a new discussion topic is needed for this idea and I am looking forward for it to happen.

1. First of all,I dont think Jonne should be burdened that 'heavy' for the faults of Tenshi's mismanagement at all. VIP Package and its escalation into Pay2Admin situation happened because moneyz and Tenshi didn't care about working on the server that much. PlanB is only truly accountable for 3 years of its existence.

The conception itself was dubious but I wont rely on that. Plan B is accountable on the VIP situation and dealing with behaviors from the old server and Jonne welcomed it on his own.

I do acknowledge it has value cause conditioning but not as heavy as all of the 10 years. Hence moving to other points you took time to mention.

First of all, Tenshi was a good person, a good owner as well until he really got addicted in smoking weed which turned him to a crazy person but that was only when it was near to the end and that was when he let Lacerta take over of some shits. Let's not forget at first place that the reason why we are talking now here or how we even know each other is all because of Tenshi's effort. But that doesn't matter now since it was past and we all look into the future obviously, not past.

I am not going into detail but I will conclude my response related to VIP topic that many people left the server because of the recent updates and limitations, they might be wrong or you might be but who knows but at the end, it's server's loose.

Good talk, looking forward to see smaller paragraphs in your upcoming responses.

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Omg Lohit, that's really one hell of a big article on 2-3 points. Anyways, I am not gonna argue about the VIP updates because no matter what, logical or not, some people will just keep denying the actual reasonable fact, so I am tired of it and tend to keep aside for now.

Your civilian idea sounds pretty cool to me and it will introduce something new in this server which will probably be liked by many I guess.. though I am not sure if it will work, maybe a new discussion topic is needed for this idea and I am looking forward for it to happen.

1. First of all,I dont think Jonne should be burdened that 'heavy' for the faults of Tenshi's mismanagement at all. VIP Package and its escalation into Pay2Admin situation happened because moneyz and Tenshi didn't care about working on the server that much. PlanB is only truly accountable for 3 years of its existence.

The conception itself was dubious but I wont rely on that. Plan B is accountable on the VIP situation and dealing with behaviors from the old server and Jonne welcomed it on his own.

I do acknowledge it has value cause conditioning but not as heavy as all of the 10 years. Hence moving to other points you took time to mention.

First of all, Tenshi was a good person, a good owner as well until he really got addicted in smoking weed which turned him to a crazy person but that was only when it was near to the end and that was when he let Lacerta take over of some shits. Let's not forget at first place that the reason why we are talking now here or how we even know each other is all because of Tenshi's effort. But that doesn't matter now since it was past and we all look into the future obviously, not past.

I am not going into detail but I will conclude my response related to VIP topic that many people left the server because of the recent updates and limitations, they might be wrong or you might be but who knows but at the end, it's server's loose.

Good talk, looking forward to see smaller paragraphs in your upcoming responses.

Yeah I know, I am relatively a new player myself, hence I started to use previous instances to backup my points. I merely had to elaborate my previous post in long points because there were three points that were connected which what I thought was lack of context.

Yeh well the civilian idea does sounds good but it is more of your idea + someone else's, lol. True that the discussion belongs in another topic.

About Tenshi, I dont wanna ignore his contributions and show meaningless disrespect, I do acknowledge and respect him as due. I just dont think jonne is accountable for all the 10 years worth of conditioning Jonne only allowed it for 3 years while saying to adapt it for balance since start of PlanB. Thats my counterpoint only, your point holds value yes but is exaggerated overall.

Eh, I dont think that makes sense. The server count still improved according to SACNR. Even if VIPs left after that update (Not the current update)..

Why would jonne nerf VIP if the VIP classes were leaving and not the Lvl 0-1 players? Unless you mean jonne lied or something (again plenty of proof to backup his point). The reason that Lvl 0-1 players still leave because the problem still existed.

Skill growth doesnt hold much value even because there isnt even enough ground to grow on the server. The new best players come from outside the server, barely any get to grow here.

Ofcourse there would be exaggerations and possible misconceptions here and there cuz its based on experience of one player saying with words alone, but even my viewpoints aside theres considerable proof. Like I said just ask for it. I dont base my opinions on mere conjecture.

[Faro0s]

Omg Lohit, that's really one hell of a big article on 2-3 points. Anyways, I am not gonna argue about the VIP updates because no matter what, logical or not, some people will just keep denying the actual reasonable fact, so I am tired of it and tend to keep aside for now.

Your civilian idea sounds pretty cool to me and it will introduce something new in this server which will probably be liked by many I guess.. though I am not sure if it will work, maybe a new discussion topic is needed for this idea and I am looking forward for it to happen.

1. First of all,I dont think Jonne should be burdened that 'heavy' for the faults of Tenshi's mismanagement at all. VIP Package and its escalation into Pay2Admin situation happened because moneyz and Tenshi didn't care about working on the server that much. PlanB is only truly accountable for 3 years of its existence.

The conception itself was dubious but I wont rely on that. Plan B is accountable on the VIP situation and dealing with behaviors from the old server and Jonne welcomed it on his own.

I do acknowledge it has value cause conditioning but not as heavy as all of the 10 years. Hence moving to other points you took time to mention.

First of all, Tenshi was a good person, a good owner as well until he really got addicted in smoking weed which turned him to a crazy person but that was only when it was near to the end and that was when he let Lacerta take over of some shits. Let's not forget at first place that the reason why we are talking now here or how we even know each other is all because of Tenshi's effort. But that doesn't matter now since it was past and we all look into the future obviously, not past.

I am not going into detail but I will conclude my response related to VIP topic that many people left the server because of the recent updates and limitations, they might be wrong or you might be but who knows but at the end, it's server's loose.

Good talk, looking forward to see smaller paragraphs in your upcoming responses.

Yeah I know, I am relatively a new player myself, hence I started to use previous instances to backup my points. I merely had to elaborate my previous post in long points because there were three points that were connected which what I thought was lack of context.

Yeh well the civilian idea does sounds good but it is more of your idea + someone else's, lol. True that the discussion belongs in another topic.

About Tenshi, I dont wanna ignore his contributions and show meaningless disrespect, I do acknowledge and respect him as due. I just dont think jonne is accountable for all the 10 years worth of conditioning Jonne only allowed it for 3 years while saying to adapt it for balance since start of PlanB. Thats my counterpoint only, your point holds value yes but is exaggerated overall.

Eh, I dont think that makes sense. The server count still improved according to SACNR. Even if VIPs left after that update (Not the current update)..

Why would jonne nerf VIP if the VIP classes were leaving and not the Lvl 0-1 players? Unless you mean jonne lied or something (again plenty of proof to backup his point). The reason that Lvl 0-1 players still leave because the problem still existed.

Skill growth doesnt hold much value even because there isnt even enough ground to grow on the server. The new best players come from outside the server, barely any get to grow here.

Ofcourse there would be exaggerations and possible misconceptions here and there cuz its based on experience of one player saying with words alone, but even my viewpoints aside theres considerable proof. Like I said just ask for it. I dont base my opinions on mere conjecture.

Yes I believe what you said and you got proof I know about it but the thing is that I myself saw it, it happened in front of me. The thing which you said about the player count improved, I kinda disagree because as far as I know, back in 2017 this server had 40+ players most of the time and in morning 15-20+ players but now it is less relatively when we compare to the past. Old players leave but new guys come, this is the way how it works but the reasons should be considered, that's all I want.

[YoMama]

The thing which you said about the player count improved, I kinda disagree because as far as I know, back in 2017 this server had 40+ players most of the time and in morning 15-20+ players but now it is less relatively when we compare to the past. Old players leave but new guys come, this is the way how it works but the reasons should be considered, that's all I want.

I think it's pretty simple. Our culture is pretty hostile to newbies, so while we get new players, they don't stay. There are Protect the President rip-offs with 30-40 players playing that I've seen elsewhere, and they aren't nearly as good as ours GM or server-wise, but what they do have is a culture of playing the GM and nobody has huge advantages over anyone else. There wasn't DM bullshit going on in the one I tried.

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Sorry for the late response (internet was cut off before I could post)

It is as YoMama said.
There is a constant input of newbies, but also a portion that leaves, and the latter overall is greater, hence the longterm effect. Regulars mostly stay here, only like 30%-40% of them get mostly cut off due to RL stuff or Bans. Other larger input is newbies.

A chunk of newbies become the regulars, but those are the minority. Most newbies leave and don't return. True PTP happens in a rarity. You are right the true problems need a new topic of discussion but since it is a part of this conversation that is vital to this topic I will list a few:
Underwhelming GM,Hostility, "1000 HP", Regular culture, Lack of teammates,Hunting, letting teammates die being considered okay,lack of focus on nerfing civilians accordingly,everything that revolves around sniper,community ignorance of newbies and discouragement of discussions, less GM friendly weapons,etc

And yes, there are rip offs of PTP in SAMP. UIF one shitting on us majorly, with a cheap ripoff and blatant copying of idea (heck they even copied the semi transparent player icons and skins) but they still overall have a better PTP than us and most likely the community is way better too. Since only improvements made really improve the GM and their average is 30-40+. MTA has 2 major PTP, and the number 1 at the least has 20 players and 40+ average, and that is a multi gamemode server where PTP isnt even the most played one, this is the original PTP v3 (Tenshi's was v2) with the most skilled and longest original community.

 

[Ahsoka_Tano]

Other PTP Server
The President and vice president get choosed randomly from the sec and police team.
Vice and Presi role is same. When Presi dies vice become president but doesent get respawned. When Vice dies president doesent get respawned.
Vice president cant be infinite. ( choosing the vice president over and over again )
No civ class.
Vip features can only spawn a tunned car with armor & nitro + choose his own skin. ( cooldown for caR )
Security has 9mm shotgun mp5 m4
Cops have 9mm shotgun mp5
Terro has dual uzi combat shotgun ak and infinite nades.
Maps have kinda niet spawn places.
Sec and cop has special cars with sirens and working sirens as horns.
Vice and presi have mp5
No helicopters or planes ( yes literally none )

This ptp server
If president dies the vice takes over and then anyonce can choose the vice.
If vice dies, he respawns.
Presi has deagle
Vice has silenced
Sec has sawnoof mp5 m4
Terro has combat shotgun tec and ak
Cop has uzi deagle m4
Swat has deagle shotgun tec
Civilian class
Armor Spawns to refill armor
Clans are destroying the gm
Vips can change skins have nitro and colored cars, can change class anytime.
/holiday eng for nades and rifle immidietly
/saw that ruins the game
/sniper that ruins the game

I forgot some shit but who cares.

In the other server the gamemode is not destroyed by the clans since there are almost everyday clans. Players normally shoot the other team no killing etc shit. Althought we do get into a funny standoff.
Camping ontop of buildings is easy and better as no sniper or saw is gonna murder you  or you are going to get killed by a kamikadze/ sparrow. (rip nades)
same as in ptp if you shoot him on your screen he recieves damage.
You dont have pickups so you will really have to count your life if you wanna keep the president or vice alive.

Difference is not big is it?
It is
Huehue

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

I'd like to mention the MTA PTP also has snipers as in Pickups. Both at spawn or outside spawn, however dont take this the wrong way there Weapon set are something akin to the SAMP PTP clone and are much weaker than ours.

They are far more stable and balance friendly than ours. Also have some really cool score to special feature conversion. We could do a favour by learning some basics from the rip offs atleast. Not that I want this server to become some futuristic feature hellhole, but we must really step the game up if we dont want PTP to be snatched off by some rip-offs while also losing players and notice in SAMP.

This update will fix the server balance in a major way and cheap way out while still keeping the situation proportionally the same will solve nothing. This server releases good updates that boost up playercount for a short time and also GM time, but it STILL loses players.

[Jonne]

>Sniper and Saw should ONLY be accessible to civilians VIA PICKUPS and bullets should be LIMITED and significantly lesser than GM class ones.
>Command should be Spawn only for regular GM classes, Pickups can still be used.
>LIMITED Sniper Bullet Spawns for VIPs.

As I already explained here: https://planbserver.com/forum/index.php?topic=3307.msg42953#msg42953 I don't think pickups are a good idea for such an important weapon. There will always be camping and fighting there, as it will just be a place where people meet. And I think it would just create an extra step in the gamemode 'flow': spawn > go pick up sniper > go pick up armour > play. So in my opinion, it would just be an extra distraction, and an extra step where players will run into each other and fight.

>Command only available to President if under bad balance, no Sniper for Vice-President, only /rifle.

In most cases, the President is already at a disadvantage, so I think the extra help is useful.

>Special UI for President to see who has a chainsaw or not.

I don't think this would be used a lot, as that would change all the time (people respawning etc.). I think it's better to assume everyone has a chainsaw and could be a threat.

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

Thanks for unlocking the topic Jonne, anyways Poll added and here's why I disagree.

1.) Pickups are scattered like Second Armors, warzones wouldn't exist except avoidable ones(like your idea of second armors).

2.) /cmd works for GM classes (and VIP Civs) (Only once per spawn,rest pickups for extra ammo), only civilian need to 'waste' their time.

3.) Won't be a distraction for players who are playing the GM, they can spawn it in spawnzone. Then move onto their business, 250 sniper ammo per cmd is retarded. If they want more then they can go out and get more like they do with armor.

4.)That's why I said "Under Bad Balance" In other cases President team is simply too powerful to get through. President and Vice President don't count under balance. It's dynamic to fit both needs.

5.)Cool, I will adapt it accordingly, because I see a lot of newbie president wanting to play with civilians. So why not have a /cmd that checks people with chainsaw in nearby area.

Eg: /sawdetect : 8 chainsaws within 2 meters (5 Team)

[Konata Izumi]

I think that disabling /saw and /sniper CMD for registered Civils will be good idea and yeah no one in the Game used up all the 250 Ammo of sniper Lohit and Jonne is right The spawn for Sniper and saw will be nothing but an another warzone for beloved War Clans and it's not true that president team Always OP.. sometimes by more team members president still die becuz of good strategies by Terrorists and Civilians... And yeah your suggestion for cmd /sawdetect isn't helping President at all because Mostly players have saw lol..

REGARDS
[DsE]Rikka_Takanashi

[Shark_The_Helicopter]

I think that disabling /saw and /sniper CMD for registered Civils will be good idea and yeah no one in the Game used up all the 250 Ammo of sniper Lohit and Jonne is right The spawn for Sniper and saw will be nothing but an another warzone for beloved War Clans and it's not true that president team Always OP.. sometimes by more team members president still die becuz of good strategies by Terrorists and Civilians... And yeah your suggestion for cmd /sawdetect isn't helping President at all because Mostly players have saw lol..

REGARDS
[DsE]Rikka_Takanashi

Thanks for repeating what jonne exactly said. Truly a worthy input. Anyways, I will repeat again.

Like I said all of those points don't matter because by that logic second armors shouldn't exist, sniper pickups would be multiple and be placed like second armors.

Point is 250 ammo per cmd is ridicoulous, every noob grows by firing like 50 shots on a person, that isnt normal nor good where sniper is the most powerful weapon.

Good strategies can't exist if civilians outnumber you by 10:3. And hit you with 10 snipers at the same time.

Sawcheck meant against civilians and a range placement can work. Only regulars mostly use it. Newbies and Undercovers are hard to detect and usually end up "joining" president only to probably backstab.

[cobby]

I don't think it is necessary leave everything as it is, Just the problem is Many players cant give chainsaw
damage now.

[Shawkhawk did nothing wrong!]

Why don't you guys make your own version of this game mode instead of ruining it for majority who doesn't share your opinion while you fuck off for a year or so, only to return with more bitchcry about game mode.